Why the presuppositional approach is not a circular argument. Also, how students are to cope with exam questions, and answering the question “who made God?”
. The following program is made possible by the friends and partners of God quest ministries who made God from the Ctn studio in the Pensacola florida, this is the creation today’s show with Erica Van and paul taylor and in this show we’re going to be talking about why the priest oppositional approach that we keep recommending is not a circular argument. We’ll also be talking to high school students about how to cope with exam questions and assignments on evolution. And we’ll also be answering that age old question. Who made God? Who did make God? If you have questions, send them into questions at Creation today 0.0 R G of course you can follow us on twitter. Remember we believe the bible is absolutely true and scientifically accurate. Welcome back to the creation Today’s show. We are excited because I want to talk about this issue of who made God. It’s a common question, objection to Christianity, the idea of, hey, if everything has a designer, then God needed a designer too. If everything has a creator, God needed a creator too. So I’m looking forward to the show. It is and we’re going to answer that question but not yet. Just watch this space. We do a little teaser that we’re almost like professionals. We almost almost almost uh, we do have a couple of announcements, my good friend Mark Spence from where the master is going to be joining us for the proof of God conference in Orlando florida, it’s going to be on 10 12, 12. So make sure you put that on your calendar, you’re not gonna wanna miss that. If you want to get information, you can go to proof conference dot com and check that out. That’s right. You’ll also find that site in Bruggen cate will be there and carl Kirby and lots of interesting speakers. It’s gonna be a lot of fun. It really is. So join us in Orlando florida on 10 12, 12 for the proof of God conference. You know, we’ve been talking quite a bit about a three D animation film, which we are extremely excited about in progress right now. We know the, we know that the chap doing it is working beavering away at this very moment and making sure that it’s all, it’s all looking good and you can find out something about that at genesis series dot com. So go to that. That’s gonna be very exciting indeed. Hey, if you’d like to see us in person, we would love the chance to meet you. You can check out creation today dot org and look at the events tab to find out if we’re going to be in an area near you anytime soon. If we’re not get it on the schedule, make it happen, man, what are you waiting on? That’s right. You know, we said in the last show that people sometimes say, why aren’t you coming to our areas. So, you know, I’ll just repeat again. It’s because you haven’t invited yet. Get that information to us. We like going where we’re invited. It’d be a bit silly if we just turned up to a church and started. I’ve thought about it so many times after I’ve heard what’s being said. I’ve thought about getting up and just anyway, I haven’t done that yet. Don’t have that boldness yet. Well, we’ve got a question now from Brandon and I don’t think he’s a fan of ours evidently not based on his question. Let’s let’s get into this and and start answering some biblical and scientific questions here. Yeah, he says. He says, when I see a bible, I say it’s a book. So somebody must have written it rather than it’s a book. So somebody must have written it. And it must be the infallible word of God. Now think about it really hard he said and ask yourself this. Why has God seen fit not to convince me even to deceive me? My rationality is you believe part of his creation? He says so why didn’t he make evidence which could have satisfied it, evidence that does not Presuppose God but still proves his existence. If you believe in God, then God is tricking me. God is hiding himself from reason and he hasn’t given me a better way to understand that operate in the world. Why would he do that? Why can’t a rational person be convinced of God. Don’t recourse to the bible. That’s asking me to accept an irrational conclusion. Wow. I don’t know if he’s being sincere brad and I certainly hope that you’re being sincere and really wondering, hey, how come? I can’t be convinced. What is my problem? Why can’t I be convinced? I’ll just tell you our history of dealing with people. Typically they don’t want to be convinced. They don’t want anything because the bible says they desire their own sin. They walk after their own lust. That’s the reason people scoff at the bible and make fun of the bible. So I hope you’re sincere. If you’re sincere, I think we’ve got some great information for you. But if you’re not, then no answer will ever ever satisfy you. It just isn’t gonna happen. And that’s the problem with the question with the question as posed. Because it’s self refuting, he says, don’t record to the bible. That’s asking me to accept an irrational conclusion. Well, if we accept that particular statement that he’s saying and not recourse to the bible, then we’re accepting his conclusion. That the bible is irrational and we do not accept that conclusion, nor in fact do the majority of discoverers of the modern scientific era who were mostly people who believe the bible to be true. My question would be this. If you don’t want this to be the foundation, then what would you purport to be the foundation. Where do you gain knowledge? The bible says it’s the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. So where do you suppose we can get knowledge from now? We already know what they would say to this, they would say, well, we have the ability to think, we have the ability to reason. We’ve got our senses, we can sense things. So through our senses we can we can perceive what is what is real and what is truth. But where did you sense that? Where did you perceive that? What which one of your senses told you that you can only perceive truth through your senses? I mean, we know that that isn’t true. We know that you cannot rely on what you perceive to be truth. I mean, I knew that just this weekend trying to hang curtain rails in my house, you know, and you you look at it and you think, Yeah, that’s going to be about four ft, you know, that’s required there. And then you get your tape measure out and you measure it and it’s not, you know, it’s not what you think it is. And then you look at it and you think that’s going to be horizontal. And and then you actually get your spirit level there and you find it’s not this is what’s horizontal. We are actually very, very poor as human beings and judging these things. And if we’re poor at judging actual physical quantities like that, then we’re going to be very poor indeed at judging the moral claims and actually measuring ourselves against that. We need an independent measure standard to be able to measure them. And if you’re saying that, you know, truth. If you’re saying that, you know what is truth and you’ve got to have something to actually measure that against. And what people say is they believe truth to be something that’s good and laugh also had to be something that’s not good. Well, where do we get that from? The answer is we get that from the bible. That’s our only standard that says so if we don’t actually accept the bible, then why not say that different people can have different standards. You know, Hitler thought it was a good idea to go around killing jewish people. I think most of us and I hope this writer as well would agree that is not a good thing is an intensely evil thing to do. One of the most evil thing that’s been done on this planet. But if you’re not going to start from the bible, you’re not going to start from the knowledge of God. What right have we actually to say? Whether that’s correct or not? We don’t, it’s just every man’s opinion for himself. It’s what, what do you believe? Okay, well, I believe differently? And and we just have to accept that it would take away any kind of cultural revolution. It would take away any kind of uh of attempt to go to another country and tell them they’re doing things wrong because they’re allowed to do whatever they want to do. That’s what they’ve decided where they voted on it or not. You know, I was reading a blog today from Ray comfort and he said it was entitled The Faith of the skeptic Skeptics love to say, well we don’t have faith. We have been on science, and he goes and shows them they have faith in lots of stuff. I mean, they have faith, that what the scientist is telling them is true. They have this one guy was talking about how I I don’t I don’t have faith. I believe in science and and radio metric dating. And he’s like, have you ever done radio metric dating? You have faith. And what they’re telling you about? Radio metric dating is what it comes down to faith is the very foundation. Another question is, what is your foundation? What is your faith gonna be based on? Is it gonna be based on man in our opinion and our senses which we know can deceive us, or is it gonna be based on the god of the bible? And your senses can deceive you really, really well, just so you know, do a little experiment. Okay, right here, while you’re watching this, I want you to say the word. Um silk five times. Ready silk. Silk, silk. Silk, silk. Say it again. Silk, silk, silk, silk, silk, silk, silk. Okay, what do cows drink? Silk? Not silk milk. Milk, no, not milk water, cows drink water. They give milk. You are were, it’s very easy to get deceived and there’s lots of little tricks like that you can play on people to, to show them that you can’t necessarily trust your senses. We’ve got to have a standard and our standard is the word of God. We’ll be back after this. Mm hmm. Mm hmm, mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Oh, I promise. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome back. You’re watching Creation today. We got a little something we want you to do based on that last segment. I’d like you to say the word shop five times right there wherever you’re at. Ready shop shop shop shop shop. Say it one more time. Five times. Ready shop shop, shop, shop shop. What do you do when you come to a green light? You go at a green light. It is so easy to get confused, isn’t it? Especially if your name is paul Taylor, No, thanks for playing along. But you got him different over there. Uh, hey, we’ve got another great question here from a young lady who’s in school asking for help. She’s saying, hey, I’m being taught biology. Obviously she doesn’t believe in evolution, but I N A N. A. Is that how you say that? I don’t know. I don’t know. I know. She says I’m about to take an exam probably next year or something in science and Biology. I live in Norway. That’s where your forebears come from. That’s exactly right bolton’s talking chili dog. What was that? I have no idea, but I think I said hello to him. I hope so too. She says I live in Norway, I’m almost 17 years old. I need to take science and biology to finish high school, but I don’t go to school, I’m going to take it privately, but I don’t want to take it because I’m going to learn about the Big Bang and evolution and all that stuff, but I got to have that in order to pass the exam with the least. Excuse me with at least an average grade because it costs money. And if I don’t, I can’t finish high school, I don’t know what to do because I believe in creation, but they want me to believe in evolution and only asking me about evolution on the exam, what should I do if I don’t believe in anything they are saying. And yet when I answer in the exam, I have to answer questions like, do you still think we’re evolving? I mean, what am I supposed to answer that without getting an F. I’m so frustrated. Please help. I don’t think I could study evolution uh for several months and not get affected, but at the same time I need a high school diploma help please, what do I do, Right. What’s your faith based on? And it’s very important that your faith is solid that it’s based on what the bible teaches and in fact then there’s nothing really can shake you from that. There are going to be lots of things all around us frequently that we don’t believe. And if you’re learning about something that doesn’t mean you have to actually necessarily have to believe what you are being taught on what you’re learning now from a sort of more global point of view, I could say that it’s going to be great if there are plenty of creationists out there who thoroughly understand evolution and can really argue about it from first principles. You know, it is, I I know somebody close to me who’s, who recently got a first class degree in zoology, I think I know who that was and we allowed to say, is she getting a job over there and we can’t talk about it, we don’t have to be careful on that subject. But the point is that she believes that what the bible says is true and she has a first class degree in zoology now. Um what, where do we go from there? She knows biology, she knows evolution thoroughly. She has a great deal of information about evolution. It hasn’t shaken the belief that in what the bible says about genesis, so she understands that she just doesn’t believe it and we say this all the time when you’re in school and being taught evolution, you can learn the information, just don’t swallow it, just don’t believe it Be able to tell them what they want to say. A great way to answer test questions if it’s not just uh you know a multiple choice and you can actually write something in. You can say if the test question comes up about evolution, you can say most scientists believe or most scientists say and then right in what they say, you don’t believe that but that’s what they want in order to get the grade. Yes and remember that you’re being perfectly honest then because we know that the theory of evolution is believed by the majority of biologists. The majority of course do not constitute scientific proof that science has never proceeded by majorities. If it had have done then you know there’s so many scientific discoveries would never have been made because of the most scientific discoveries have been made in the teeth of against what the majority have said on a particular subject. And often many scientists is not glass, it’s not perfectly smooth. You don’t believe people to make them better. It’s not made out of green cheese. Yeah. These things are very very important aren’t they? Yeah that’s a good example isn’t it about they’re not bleeding people who developed the idea that things had to be sterile in order to joseph Lister. Yes. So we get Listerine that idea. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. So I you can learn this information. Scientists throughout history have had to deal with things that people believe that were not true and in the face of that make progress? A good friend of mine right now is in his masters degree program. Uh he lives across the street from, he’s in his master’s degree program, he is now a teacher of evolution, uh, in the university and he doesn’t believe it, but he uses that as a strong christian to be able to slide down into people’s minds. And he says we need more christians, we need more creationists in these schools teaching this stuff, we need more people that are willing to put up with it to get the degree to then go be a light in darkness. We do indeed, Yes, and we need christians to be teachers in the public school system. And you know, we’ve we’ve talked a lot about school systems and you know, were great advocates of christian education or independent christian education and home schooling and so on, because, you know, we have no evidence of any time when the Israelites sent their Children to the Philistines to be educated. You know, there’s the argument that Children should be salt and light and you know, that that’s not an argument that we tend to like to use don’t send your kids off to the battlefield because that’s not their job, but the teachers are in the battlefield and it’s great when christians christian teachers say, we need to go into those, those public schools and we need to to teach in those particular situations. So what’s the sort of, some of the advice that we’re going to give to Ian and then eric what we’re going to, we’re going to say what you said, answering questions perfectly honestly by saying, well, some scientists say, or even most scientists say prophesying that that’s perfectly honest. I think you can do that. Even if you asked the question, do you think we’re still evolving? You can twist that and say, well, many scientists would say that that these things are happening actually, there’s always debate on that. I very much doubt that an exam, high school exam, I would ask that because even the evolutionists aren’t sure on that. I know that Professor steve jones, one of the leading evolutionists, professors in, in England says while human beings are not evolving, they’ve come to the end and this is it, this is as far as how would you know that that’s a wow. Some of the claims they make just absolutely surprise me. I love, I love to use and you gotta be careful, This is probably more on a college level, but when the teacher, the professor teaches that there are no absolutes, there is no right and wrong and then it gives you an exam, you can answer whatever you want, you can say anything, you can cheat if you want and then when you get called in and question you can say, but, but you said there’s no right and wrong, Everything is relative. So I’m really putting it back on the teacher and using that. You gotta be careful there. Now. I’ll tell you this for the students out there that are christians and don’t believe in evolution and want to learn how to do this. If you are not good in school, if you do not pay attention, if you don’t do your homework, if you, if you’re not a good student, you don’t do your best. Do not say, hey, I’m a christian and I don’t believe that you’re not helping anybody. You or other other christians. You’re actually hurting the name of christ, you make sure you’re doing good, your best, you’re getting your homework done on time, you’re doing your projects and you’re being obedient. You’re not one of the goof off kids. Then you can say, hey, I got a question, some serious questions about that. We actually have a couple of books help. I’m being taught evolution available through the creation store and those are some really good resources to teach you how you can talk to your teacher or professor about what they’re teaching. That’s right. So make sure make sure that you’ve got all those in line and yeah, keep those going and teach the truth be a light in the darkness if you can and if not, well then don’t swallow that information. Hey, we got more to talk about who made God is our question right after this help and being hot Evolution in my Earth science class. Okay, this unique book gives public school earth science students like me practical steps to confront evolution in the classroom, written in an e conversation format between a student and dr heaven. It is a fun, easy read that helps equip public school students to defend the truth in a respectful manner. Welcome back, you’re watching the Creation today’s show with paul, taylor and eric Hoven. Well we’ve been having some really great questions to answer, but you know, sometimes we get lots of questions thrown at us. There are, there are questions that are thrown at us by people who really don’t want to hear an answer. They want to avoid things. And there are some standard questions therefore, that quite often because they can sound a little bit Purell to begin with that we tend to miss over them where we’re going to have actually tackle one of those questions Now, what would you say is the number one avoidance question that people will bring up if they really don’t want to talk about Christianity? No question number one avoidance question is well then who made God? Because we keep going back to God? Well then who made him? And it’s usually said in this sort of way, you know, you sat across the table to someone, you’re saying can I share something with you about, about the Lord, jesus christ and they said no, you can’t share that after all, Who made God got you, got you. That’s it. The question itself is a terrible question. It shows that anybody that asks us has a wrong understanding of who God is, the idea of God being made means he’s not God. So you don’t call him god. So the very question itself is, well, to be honest, it’s kind of a silly question. But yet it’s one that people think is so intelligent. Well, if design demands a designer, then who designed the designer? And he’s gotta, that’s a richard Dawkins saying he’s got to be much more complex than this designer. That’s right. That’s right. And I wanted us to be able to answer this question because a young man wrote to us with, you know, said quite a bit of confusion about this and you know, full marks to this comes from Danny and he says I was talking with friends about the bible and this is absolutely marvelous. I’m pleased that young people are talking to their friends about the bible and sharing their faith because that is very important. You do not need to know the answer to everything to start sharing your faith. That’s exactly right. Just get busy and trust me. It’ll make you dig into God’s word war. I wrote a blog about that. That’s right. So he goes on to say one of his friends made a question that made him confused. I didn’t know what to say the question was, who created God? And I said, well that’s our belief was I right? And yeah, actually you were right, there’s a few more things that we could say about that and you’re absolutely right eric Richard Dawkins actually said the same question in far more flowery language, using lots and lots of complicated words. When you actually boiled it down. His statement was well, who may God then? Ah ha ha! And it’s the same sort of attitude. It is and I it blows my mind how people can ask this question and not see the problem with it. Well, it doesn’t when I realized that they are willingly ignorant and they’re deceived. But the problem with the very question is it assumes God had a maker. Yes. So the question is a terrible question linguistically it doesn’t make sense. You know, the very sound that we make with our throats and we say the word God is in english, the word that has been developed to describe the creator. Yes, that’s what the word is for. It means the one who created everything, who is therefore before all things. That is the whole point of the word. So actually, even on a linguistic level, it doesn’t make sense to ask who made God, You’re exactly right now is equivalent to saying why are ducks green. That’s true. That’s a question that doesn’t really make any sense. Why is the moon made out of green cheese? Why is the earth a ball full of gas? The question doesn’t excel make sense. It’s a it’s a terrible question asked yet people have promoted this is some great, you know, intellectual way to get rid of the idea of God. Well, let me ask you something. What’s your other choice? I mean, if you take God out of the picture, you’re left with nothing, you’re left with matter created itself. You’re left with giving godlike properties to either time, uh, space or matter. Something has to act like God out there and you do all this just to avoid the truth that the bible says you already know in your heart. The bible says, you know that God is God and you suppressed that truth in unrighteous nous. Stop suppressing the truth, recognize and realize God did not have a maker. God did not have a creator. God did not have a designer. God is eternal. Matter of fact, the bible talks about that, doesn’t it? How eternal God is eternal. Uh psalm 90 what was that one psalm 90 92 says before the mountains were brought forth or ever you had formed the earth and the world. Even from everlasting to everlasting. You are God. He goes from everlasting to everlasting. You don’t put time on God. He’s not locked inside of time. Like we are today. He was not created. You got another one. We’ve got one here in genesis chapter 21? And verse 33. then Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in beersheba and they’re called on the name of the Lord the everlasting God. First timothy 1 17 now to the king, eternal, immortal, invisible. The only wise God be honor and glory forever and ever. And you’ve got to realize God claims himself, he tells us himself he is eternal. He had no beginning. He has no ending since the bible contains so much information, you know? And we have to assume that if an atheist wants to ridicule the bible that they there have therefore ready through in order to criticize it, which is probably not the case actually in many cases, but since the bible contains so much information, you would perhaps think that if this was a necessary argument that the bible would contain what amounts to a high school essay on the existence of God. You know, let’s have all the arguments on the existence for the existence of God against the existence of God. Let’s weigh them up. But actually, the bible doesn’t start that way. The bible starts by saying in the beginning, God in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Why does the bible start that way? Because God is the most important focus for our thinking and for our understanding. Speaking of thinking, we address this issue itself, showing that um without God, you can’t know anything at all. It would be impossible to even have knowledge without God. We address that in a new cd entitled think where we just go through its sights and Bergen kate and myself on a radio program and it just covered the topic of of arguing for the existence of God and the idea that everybody knows got it covered it so well that we just put it on cd and wanted to make that available for people because it really did a good job with that. So I encourage you to get that another resource is the ultimate proof of creation by Jason lyle showing and going through the truth that God doesn’t have a maker. You know, you have to have God from the very beginning to get anywhere. It’s not that you add up all these proofs and these proofs equal God. It’s that without God, you don’t get all these proofs, Nothing happens without God. You see if you say who made God, then whoever made God is the God of that God. So then you have to ask who made that God, in which case there must be another god who made that God. So they must see you have to ask who made that God and you get into an infinite progression. It is much more logical to say everything was made by an infinite god. That’s exactly right. Oh well I appreciate you guys writing in and we would love answering your questions, please continue to send them into questions at creation today dot org. That is our show. If you want to join us on facebook, you can do that facebook dot com slash creation today or twitter twitter dot com slash creation today actually. No. Yes twitter dot com slash creation today and then at Creation Today. Absolutely. Well, this has been a prediction of God quest ministries. Thank you for joining us in this program and we’ll see you next time. This program is available on DVD by visiting Creation store dot org or by calling 877479 34 66. To order this episode used the item number displayed on your screen.