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Purgatory is not found in the bible, yet many are hoping to go there.



today on way of the master, what do you think is the purpose of your life? I don’t know if you believe that jesus is your Lord and savior and you live your life according to that, then you will be in heaven? So you’ve just killed the interview? What do you think it is? Honestly that keeps you from sharing christ Honestly, I don’t want to offend anyone. I mean I don’t want to be rejected but they’re gonna spend an eternity in hell. You mentioned you grew up catholic, what did that look like for you? Like I still have it with me, I still carry it with me but I don’t really follow it. But growing up it was very go to church every sunday, go to sunday school all of that. I’m assuming that you still believe in a god. A creator. Yeah, I just don’t know who or what, that’s fine. Higher there’s there’s a higher power or something out there. Yeah, I agree. And I think it’s important like if if he is our creator then he’s the one that gave us our purpose, right? Like if I create a watch, I create that watch to tell time and if a watch doesn’t tell time uh then it’s broken and we can do two things with a broken watch. What do you think? We can do with a broken watch, fix it or get a new one. Yeah, throw it away, throw it away. That’s exactly right. Or or you can say like renovate or reconstruct or redeem that watch? Um do you think that you have been living out your intended purpose? Probably not. Probably not. Do you think there’s an afterlife? Absolutely. What do you think? Yes. Why do you say? Absolutely Terrence? Just my faith. What I believe in, Even even if it’s not what I believe in per se, I think we’re all spiritual beings. So after this physical shell, our spiritual being has to go somewhere. Where does it go? My personal belief, If you believe that jesus is your Lord and savior and you live your life according to that being a servant of the, of the will of God, then you will be in heaven. Have you been born again? I have been born again. And what about you? So you’ve just killed the interview. I was not expecting this to be the interview, but I’ll ask you what your fears are. What’s your greatest fear in life. Um I think that’s a question that pertains to where you are at in your season of life. So right now today, my biggest fear would just be uh not fulfilling the will of God, not planning a seed in my family, my kids, my friends just not not not fulfilling the dc that he has set out from my life. That’s a great fear. Is that your same concern. Um I would say my biggest fear is feeling as if I don’t have a purpose on life or in life. So um as a christian, Yes, you still floundering to find out your purpose. No, but if I were to ever feel that way, that would be a fear of mine. You know what the will of God is? Yes. To spread his word to two, others were found everlasting life. How can we not speak that? Which we’ve seen and heard? There is a fear that the ungodly have. Do you know what it is? I think the fear of the well I think that’s very very vast question. I don’t think, I think some people fear of not feeling they have a purpose. I think some people fear of not having a connection or something. Um thinking of Hebrews 2 14 and 15, you’re familiar with that verse? No, it says the whole of humanity is haunted by the fear of death all their lifetime drives people to drink, drives into suicide. Have you been brought up in a christian home? You don’t know what it’s like to have no sense of faith in God and no salvation. So Justin as as a believer, someone who loves the Lord um what do you think about God’s call on our lives to share the gospel with other people? Do you think that’s important? Do you think that’s optional or is that something that every christian should be doing? My belief is that if we’re living for God, our example will show that there’s a difference, I will say that about jesus christ if I ask but I don’t have to go and tell people they should see a difference or they should know that I have a different belief system than everybody else. Let me ask you this, if you knew someone who was living in a home that had, um, mold in it, would you feel compelled in your conscience to tell them? Hey, there’s, there’s dangerous mold in your house or do you think now that’s none of my business, whatever or would you feel like, wait, this is toxic mold, they’re gonna die from this. Would you be compelled to tell them? Yeah, I mean I would tell them that, you know, there is some something that they could do that. There are options that, you know, you don’t have to live like that. You would point it out to them, I would point out, do you think in that scenario obviously hell being way more serious than a mold problem? Someone dying? Do you see in that scenario why it would be important for us as christians who know that there’s a way people can be saved from hell and obviously the overwhelming majority of people don’t know, christ. Do you see how in that scenario, uh, why it’s important for us as christians to share the gospel with people? Yes, it’s true. Does that kind of make you step back and say maybe I need to as a christian do more than just live a certain way in front of people, but I need to tell them the truth? I do feel convicted sometimes that I should share more? I mean I know that if you do have a cure or you could prevent something bad from happening and you don’t do anything. It’s like a sin of omission, right? You could have done something about it, right? I don’t want to have regrets for that. Evangelism can be terrifying. Uh it’s not something that most people wake up in the morning and think, oh, I can’t wait to go and talk to a stranger and tell them that they’re on their way to hell and they need to be saved. They need to repent. But I wanna ask you guys this question, is it a sin for a christian to go through life and to never share the gospel with the lost? Well, we’re commanded to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Sounds like that person needs to start with the person in the mirror. I don’t know how you can call yourself a christian and have zero concern for the loss. You know, you’re on, you’re on a boat, The boat’s going down and you’re the only one that knows about it. You jump inside of a safety raft and you go to shore boy. It’s like the most dangerous position ever to be inside with no compassion, no concern. No one would sit around and say, well, is this uh, is this right? Or is it wrong when I see a child drowning in a swimming pool, should I jump in? I mean, if we know that someone has the capacity to jump in a pool and save a drowning child and they don’t, we look at that person and say, man, what’s wrong with you? Like what? Why wouldn’t you do that? Do more than that? They go, it’s a criminal action. It’s called Depraved Depraved indifference. And that that’s as depraved. It means as low as you can get an indifference means you couldn’t care less. A child’s drowning. I’m busy doing something else. Thank you know, that’s that’s hard, cold, cold heart Carl Sagan said, when you’re in love, you want to tell the world is a fine christian. When you’re in love, you want to tell the world well, maybe these so called people that claim to be christians that aren’t telling the world about him, who is love? Isn’t in there, not in love themselves because there’s no regeneration. Have you ever regretted not sharing the gospel? Has there ever been a time where you walked away from someone thinking I blew it? We had a painter or some sort of electrician in the office one day and I got into the office and I was like in my mind, I was like, oh, I’m gonna say hi, but I don’t have time to share the gospel with this guy, I gotta get to work? And I went into my office, started working and I started feeling that, that you know, that prick of guilt and I walk out of my office and there’s Ray sharing the Gospel with them. Like the first thing you did when you walked in there. Yeah, God is sovereign in that regard. But we still, I think blow it at times. Right? Have you ever done that? Well, I I’ve been extremely challenged by something that I’ve imagined God saying to me when I’ve been on my bike and I go past someone and I get an impression I should go back and talk to them and I say to myself, I don’t want to I’m too far ahead. And my thought is I hear God’s voice and this is my imagination. I’m not actually hearing hearing it saying there was a time when you would have gone back that cuts me into and I immediately do a u turn and go back. And uh and I’ve never regretted doing that. We have to look and acknowledge it. This is hard. A lot of times I hate it. I detest it. I don’t want to witness to anybody. I want to go hide in my room and be alone or whatever. And then we have to remember the character of God. He sympathizes with our weaknesses. He says, come boldly to my throne of Grace, I’ll give you mercy. I’ll give you grace to help in time of need souls are at stake. I’m your witness. Help me not to be so selfish that I won’t speak of Justin what would you say is the most amazing thing that’s ever happened in your life. The day I accepted christ, tell us about that day. I was, I was in a dark place. I had given my life to evil and was living a life of hate and anger and rage and it was getting me nowhere. I mean, I was just in a moment, feelings of panic, uh, always paranoid, I was scared, I was angry and I didn’t know why. And uh, I went to a christian concert, I don’t know what a christian concert, but I went there and uh they said, hey, you know what, uh, there’s other choices in life than the current choice you’re making if you want to hear more about it. And I said, okay, uh, I knew I was in a place that I change was needed. How long ago was that? It was in 1997. So it’s been a while, it has been quite a while. Yes. So tell me what was the message that you heard that changed you? The message was that uh we can only do so much in ourselves and that there’s a greater purpose for our lives and that we’re not just drifting on this planet, that there actually is more to life than what we just see and that there is, you know, a good vibe or a bad vibe or good and evil and it made sense to me because I could feel that there was a force of this negativity and anger and hate. I knew that one, I didn’t know the other one very well. So so, so Justin what would you say the gospel is somewhere to ask you? Hey, I’m I’m I’m on my deathbed, they say I have one day left to live um and I heard about this thing called the Gospel. What what is the gospel? What would you say to them? The gospel is that jesus christ the mediator between us and God and that he has sacrificed his life for our sins. And if we choose to believe in him, confess our sins, admit we’re a sinner, that he’s willing to meet us where we are and help us restore our relationship with God? Justin what happens to people if they die without christ eternal separation from God? Where where is that? My household was very, very split. A mother who was a praying mother, a mother who was a faith and a father who, for my childhood up until adulthood was not um drug addiction, violence, um a lot of unloved. So I was really in a, in a split household and by the grace of God, I had a mother who was a praying mother who did plant that seed, so how do you deal with your fear of death as a christian. I don’t fear death. And what about you? Um I think I’ve finally gotten to that point where I don’t fear death because I do have the faith that I have and I know as parents, we’ve also planted that seed in our kids. So I know where I’m going when I die. So there there really isn’t a fear. Yeah. The way to reconcile in your mind is to say how would you feel if you’re gonna jump out of a plane 10,000 ft without a parachute, you’re gonna be terrified because you can hit the ground 100 20 miles an hour. But if someone gives you a parachute, your fear will be in direct relation to the faith you have in that parachute. If you believe the parachute is gonna save you, I’m gonna hit the ground at 12 miles an hour, 12 miles an hour on your feet. Then you can control your fears. And that’s what the christian has. We have a savior. We put on the Lord, jesus christ so that when we pass through death we can say I will not fear because you are with me and your rod and staff. They comfort me, read your bible daily. Um, as much as I do, but I can definitely read my bible more, have breakfast daily, have any meals daily daily. Okay, put your bible before your belly and you’ll never go wrong. I mean what what job said, I’ve esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. So if you esteemed God’s word more than necessary food, you’ll never go wrong. You’ve got the promise of someone because you meditate on the law of God, day and night. His word, you’ll be like a tree planted by the rivers of water will bring forth fruit and season your leaf want with her and whatever you do will prosper. So no bible, no breakfast, no read, no feed, never go wrong. Okay. Amen. Amen. My parents are really religious. So growing up I did do like, you know the whole saturday or sunday school. Um, you know, I was baptized, I did my communion, whatever all of that. I went through all of that. Um, I was very not very religious, but I did go through all of that because of my family. Um, but growing up, you know, learning different things and seeing different point of views, it kind of, you still have that embedded in your, I guess morals and how you view life. But um, it’s not something that I do now. Have you ever heard of the word? Tell us? No, that’s a weird tell us. That’s the one tell us is uh, it means like the meaning of something like the in goal, the purpose. So like the tell us of a watch would be to tell time. That’s exactly right and the perfect tell us is that watch, which perfectly tells time all the time. It never goes wrong. What do you think your tell us is the purpose of your life. I don’t know. Um It’s I studied philosophy, I got my bachelors in philosophy but so it’s something I’ve kinda studied a lot but I was raised catholic so you know, you got different things i at this very moment well and it’s an important question to ask ourselves, right? Because you know if a watch for example decides one day that it’s gonna try to be a hammer, it wouldn’t work out very well would break itself. So it is one of the most important questions. Do you think about it often? I do actually I was just reading that book um which tries to explain the meaning of life as well. So I think about it a lot, which is why I don’t have like a reel, breathe a real definition of what I would think. Alright. So she studied philosophy and she’s a catholic, doesn’t really understand the purpose to life all of that. You know, sometimes I think we expect people to have this well refined worldview, but a lot of the people we run into are dealing with what I would call a hodgepodge is um right kind of a smorgasbord of stuff. How do we deal with that? Do you just do you just have to navigate and dissect as a christian kind of like a surgeon sometimes. So at the core of philosophy it’s a love for wisdom I find interesting, Here’s a girl who gets her degree in philosophy and she has no idea what the meaning of life is though. She’s listened to everybody a little potpourri for everything. So when you consider apologetics, which is a defense for the faith, what what are you trying to defend and what’s the aim on why you bring up what you’re bringing up? I think that we should try to pick and choose what questions that we answer. If the questions don’t help us lead ultimately to the gospel, but then we’re just arguing and if we’re not arguing towards Grace, but then we’re arguing for our own sake. I think it was Greg johnson who said uh the apologist who fails to get to the gospel, he’s both cruel and he’s proud. He’s cruel because he fails to recognize the greatest need of his opponent, which is salvation. And he’s proud because he’s more interested in coming across like an intellectual elitist than get to what he needs to get to, which is the gospel. Have you guys been noticing that more and more? There seems to be the sense of purposeless nous. Yeah, I like to ask if someone’s educated and they say, yeah, if you read the bible, the world’s biggest selling book of all time. Are you familiar with that bible verse? The son of man has come to seek and save that, which is lost. What do you think that means? They share all of them? And I said do you think you’re lost? They said no. So what’s the purpose of existence? They don’t know what’s our origins. They don’t know what’s gonna happen after you die. They don’t know. It says you’re lost. You don’t know where you came from, what you’re doing here or where you’re going. That’s the definition of lost Augustine was the one that pointed out that each generation, each culture asking a different question deep in their hearts. And you see paul expressed the gospel differently to the jews and he did to the gentiles. And in that way, I think people who lived, who, who, you know, people from the generation of the seventies and eighties, they sincerely lived with the undergirding question of where do I go? Or what happens when I die? But millennials gen z’s people younger, if you ask them that question, some of them are gonna be like, I don’t know, I haven’t thought about it because sincerely that’s not the question that they’re asking. But they are asking another question which is who am I, what is my worth in life? And they’re asking that question because all around them, the culture is telling them the only way for them to find worth and values, to look inside themselves and they’re looking and they’re finding nothing. And so when we asked that question, we’re inviting them to look to God for meaning and value, which happens through repentance and believing him, Jesus said go into all the world preach the gospel to every creature that’s a great commission, right? And obviously in second Corinthians five, it also says that we are ambassadors for christ God wants to plead through us to the world to be reconciled to him. And so um so do you is that kind of is a like kind of going on for you in that regard? Yeah. And and what do you think it is? Honestly that that keeps you from sharing christ with people and knowing the truth? Honestly, honestly, I don’t want to offend anyone. I mean I don’t want to be rejected or I don’t want them to feel that I’m coming off too aggressive. I feel like if I live my own life they should see it, but I should be more proactive. You’re right about that. So yeah, because you know, often I think we forget that our worst repercussion from a person is them getting upset with us and maybe cutting off even the relationship with us or um maybe maybe even hitting us, right, which is a rare thing, but they might attack us or whatever it’s happened. But their worst case scenario is they’re gonna spend an eternity in hell and it should our fear for the repercussions for us should be outweighed by our love for them and thinking where they’re gonna spend eternity, don’t you think my encouragement to you is to recognize Justin that God can equip us, that’s why we have his word, That’s why we have his truth. You know, our ministry exists to inspire and equip christians in fulfilling the great commission. We show videos like this one, but with discussions with unbelievers where we’re engaging with them in the Gospel and we’ve had people watch our videos or get a hold of our books, our training courses and they’ve been transformed and that, wow, I didn’t realize I can do it too, you know, and most importantly, we have the holy spirit in us who empower us to do that. So, are you gonna do something about this? Take up the challenge and begin to get yourself equipped so that you’re more effective in sharing the Gospel? Yes, Glad to hear that. Check out Living Waters dot com. That’s the website for our ministry. And uh, and I’ll give you some stuff here when we’re done and there’s ways you can get a quick man, thank you so much for your openness. And I think this is a divine encounter because again, you have the capacity and God working through you to give the words of everlasting life something more important than the cure to cancer, to lost centers. So I’m glad, I’m glad you’re on board now, man, God bless you. All right, all right, would you consider yourself a good person? I’m not the best person, but I wouldn’t say I’m a bad person? So yes. So, uh, if if there was a heaven and hell, and if you died today, where do you think you would go? Uh, I’m not sure about other denominations, but Catholics do believe in purgatory. So if I go based on that, I would think probably purgatory. So you would, you would need some help then. Have you ever stolen anything your life, no matter the size big or small. Have you ever told a lie? Alright? Me as well? Have you ever looked with lust? Yes. All right. So, uh, have you ever used God’s name in vain? By your own admission? You’re a lying thieving blasphemer, adulterer at heart. Um, and so by your own admission, you mentioned purgatory, um nowhere in the scriptures, nowhere in the bible doesn’t mention purgatory. So by your own admission, it sounds like you might be going more towards hell than heaven, would you say? So, are you going to heaven or hell? Oh, I’m going to purgatory. So why is purgatory such an attractive, appealing option for people comfort? It’s a hope. It’s a hope they’re they’re running to because they know they’re not going to heaven because they’ve sinned and the thought of going to hell is horrible. So they run to the false hope of purgatory in which there’s no substantiation in scripture and I have been amazed how many people they say I’ve got a purgatory and I just said there’s no such place and they accept that from me. Okay, just notice that I’ve seen some interviews where there’s no pushback, it’s like, okay, thanks for letting me know that. And yet it’s really an ingrained belief and mark, why is purgatory so anti biblical? Well, because it goes against everything that the gospel is, we’re saved by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast in purgatory is kind of a media very place where people can work off the sins that they’ve done or somebody else besides christ can maybe pay an indulgence or do something to get you from one place to the next place, which is heaven. The only people in heaven are forgiven people right, that are saved solely based upon the merits of what jesus christ did. It is God’s unmerited favor to the infinitely ill deserving. You don’t deserve to go to heaven if you’re there is because of what christ did not because of what you’ve done. I think for many of the allure of purgatory is also this like sort of kicking it, kicking the can down the road, like I’ll worry about eternity when I get there. Therefore I can live what every kind of life I’m gonna live right now and then in purgatory, I’m gonna sort all this stuff out, but you know, you said exactly right. The question was, why is purgatory against the scriptures? Because it’s not in the scriptures, it’s just simply not there. Yeah, and you know, scripture is clear, it’s appointed unto man once to die and then comes the judgment and you think of the evils associated with purgatory back in the day. And this is one of the things that sparked the reformation when, when they were trying to get people to give so that they could build giant cathedrals and things like that. And it was like, hey, get your relatives out of purgatory, you just get, you know, there was something, was it tet cell that had that thing when, when you hear the ring then from hell or from purgatory, a soul will spring or something like that. But it really is a, it’s an evil doctrine because it does give that sense to people. Oh well okay. I could be okay. So there’s no urgency to get right with God. And on on the other hand, it’s our approach on the gospel because it’s attributing something that I can do. Like I pay for my sense for so long in purgatory and then I can, it’s a parachute filled with holes. Oh, holy parachute? An unholy holy parachute. So imagine yourself standing before a judge and uh the judge says that you are guilty punishable by death. Um what would you say or do in that moment to try to try to get yourself out of the bad things that you’ve done. I would probably list off the good things that I’ve done or try to ask for some sort of way. I could redeem like you said myself. Yeah, yeah, that’s good and I mean that’s kind of a funny thing to say, right? Like I’m guessing that’s your husband. Yeah, I like him, he’s a cool guy. Uh so imagine God forbid someone ever murdered your husband. And that guy goes before a judge and you’re standing there to make sure that he gets the judgment that’s rightfully due to him. And at the end of it all, he admits his guilt. He’s 100% guilty, like all the evidence, he’s all he’s admitting himself and he says to the judge, but you know what judge, I’m I’m a pretty good big brother, like I take my sister out to lunch every now again and the judge is like, you know what? Yeah, that seems fair. I’m gonna let you go scot free, would you say that was a fair judge or an unfair, unfair, unfair, you would require justice, right? And that’s the same thing in regards to our sins before the Lord, like we he requires justice. It’s not a matter of here’s all the good things that I’ve done and here’s all the bad things again, it’s simply that he requires justice and the beautiful thing, you mentioned the cross. The beautiful thing about jesus’s life is that he goes to the cross to redeem us. He basically stands up and he says, you know what I’m going to pay her fine for her, she deserves the punishment. She deserves the wrath, but instead I’m gonna take that on, I’m gonna allow her to go free and ultimately going back to that watch, it’s instead of throwing you away, what jesus is trying to do by going to the cross is inviting you to be redeemed to be restored to your proper Tell us to your proper purpose and meaning in life to glorify him and enjoy him forever. And when we hear that message, that’s the guy, that’s good news. When we hear that message, she calls us then to repent and believe repentance for us means stop living out a wrong tell us a wrong meaning and purpose for our own lives and instead turn towards God and his meaning and his purpose for our own lives. And another part of repentance also means homecoming, which is the sense that like we were lost, but now we are found now we are going home to our tell us to our purpose, ask those kind of questions. The doubtful questions that you might have to add, you know, at a local church with with friends around you that might help you through that. Does that make sense when you consider these things? Yeah, there’s been a lot of signs recently in my life that kind of Yeah, well maybe that’s God inviting you home, inviting you to repent. I’m gonna I’m gonna pray for you if that’s okay? No, that’s fine, I would have, I would like that. We hope this episode of Way of The Master has inspired you to share the Gospel with others. You can watch our award winning movies and listen to the Living Waters podcast freely at Living Waters dot com, where you’ll also find articles, ebooks, videos, audio content, digital resources and gospel tracks, including our popular starter kit with four of our top gospel tracts to help you share your faith biblically and effectively make sure to visit Living Waters dot com today.

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