Abortion Rights and Wrongs

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Responding to the claims of the Pro-Choice movement.



today on way of the master as adultery evil? I don’t think so. I think unless you do it purposefully to hurt that person. Most people do it purposefully, what would someone in your state need to do in order to avoid God’s judgment. And how I don’t think about it as black or white is that you are in danger of eternal judgment. Do you believe that it’s a baby in the womb? It’s a touchy subject for women to be listened to by men? I’m going to do what makes me feel best and I’m never going to harm anybody else unless it’s a baby, right? Oh, tell me your thoughts on the afterlife. Um, it’s the question that, you know, everyone wants to answer to, but we don’t really have a definite answer. You don’t have a definite answer. I don’t think I do. I do you do. I found an answer many years ago. Who have you asked? Um, religious people like christian people and Christianity, what do they tell you that there is an afterlife? I believe there is an afterlife, but I believe it’s in the sense of energy, like because you know, um, let me get my, is there anything in this life you would consider to be evil? I would say. So it’s a word that most of us hesitate to use regularly to say something is evil. But can you think of anything that you would say that’s evil? Someone who torments Children or someone who kills another person on purpose rape? That’s evil? Yes, rape is evil, pedophilia as adultery evil. Um, what does that mean again, when you cheat on your spouse? Um I don’t think so, I think that would be there’s reasons why people do things, but I wouldn’t say that that’s the most evil thing unless you do it purposefully to hurt that person. Most people do it purposefully is lying? Evil depends on the life stealing. It all depends. I’m trying to challenge you as to your standard with which you judge evil. Do you think God considers things to be evil? Yes. According to what does God consider to be evil, Adultery, lying and stealing? Yes, slater, let me ask you this. Do you believe in the existence of any type of God or higher power? I s a broad question, I believe in negative energy and positive energy, believe in light and dark. Where do you get those perspectives from? Have you had certain experiences or is it just kind of a feeling you have certain experiences? Personal experiences? Um Just observing the world, I feel like there’s evil and there’s good and there’s probably an equal amount of both. How would you define evil and good depends on what you mean by if you’re referencing evil in this world or evil in other realms, evil in this realm, evil in this realm would be intentionally trying to hurt someone? Um with the intention to hurt them? I would say that would be evil maliciousness, viciousness, um you know, stealing, killing, murdering all the things that are pretty obvious now? Are you familiar with something called the 10 commandments? This is something that the Bible talks about, that’s a part of the you know, Judeo Christian tradition. I know it very broadly. I’m not Christian. Um so I wouldn’t I don’t know the specifics, but I’m familiar with the concept, What’s your religious background and upbringing? I’m agnostic. So you kind of not aren’t really sure if there is really a god or not? For sure. I would I would say uh human nature. Um there’s a lot of certitude and I come I grew up in the Middle East where people have a lot of certitude and I always thought it was ok to say, hey, I don’t know, I can’t, no, you know, um I can certainly live my life in a good way and then if there is a God, I would get if I get, you know rewarded for that. And that’s great and if there’s not then that’s not so great. But I can’t know and there’s certainly no point in, you know, sitting there and trying to think about what happened thousands of years ago, I just live my life as a good person and I hope for for whatever happens happens, you know what part of the Middle East you from? Um I actually grew up in Dubai you speak Arabic that’s great, man, I love that. So we have some stuff in common. So what happens after we die? I all I know is that I don’t know. All you know is that you don’t know. All right. I like that. Great. What happens to us? We become one with the universe and were recycled and we become new life. Does your worldview? Does your position believe in God or a higher power of any sort? I believe in a higher power? I think. I don’t think it really matters. I think we’re all just one. So All right. We were all born in the moment we were born, we kind of had an appointment with death sort of thing. Yes. All right. Um So, you believe in some sort of higher power? Does this higher power you are? So, would you be considered The God of your universe then? Yes. 100%. Is she right? I’m the God of my universe. Alright. I’m enjoying Huntington Beach. Is there more right and wrong within your world view? My specific perspective. Yes. But as a collective, I think it’s variable. Okay, so is it up to each individual than being variable? So, do people get to decide for themselves what is right and wrong? Uh Well, I mean, in in some cases, what might be right for you might be wrong for the collective and vice versa. So, do you think that if there is a God that God should care about right and wrong? What do you think? I mean? I think if he created this entire simulation. He she it it created this entire simulation. Like it put together the rules. I don’t know. I don’t think God can blame a like mass murdering psychopath from going and you know, a mass killing spree because he’s the one who put together conditions for that to be there. Let me ask you this. So I believe that if somebody is not a christian when they die, they’re gonna go to hell because they’ve broken God’s law. Am I wrong in my view point? I have no right to say that. And what do you think? So? It’s opposite of what you guys believe though, right, But we don’t have a right to tell you if you’re wrong or right. That’s not up to us. It’s up to you. Yeah, it all comes down to like, does it affect me if it doesn’t I don’t care what you believe guys. I don’t know if you ever have dreams, but my greatest dream in the world has been to be the Lebanese God of my own universe. It’s the logical conclusion to the removal of God from the equation of life, isn’t it? Something has to fill the God vacuum and it’s always naturally us because who’s more wonderful than us? Well, that’s the problem, isn’t it? I mean, we have seven billion people walking around this planet pretending to be the God of this universe. There’s no room for seven billion gods because there’s only room for one. I also think it’s honestly incredibly exhausting because deep down inside we all know how incredibly flawed and afraid we really are. And so if I’m the God of my own universe, if I am the best, the thing that there is, I know all of my shortcomings, I know all of my feelings, ultimately it leaves me hopelessly bankrupt to just have hope for my own self. We we tend to look on atheists and sell intellectual, the bible says the opposite and we’re foolish not to believe an atheist is a fool because scripture makes it clear that he is. Yeah. I’ve always been amazed at the lengths that especially atheists will go to when wanting to get out of acknowledging the reality of God. Even Richard Dawkins went to, well, we were seated here perhaps by some intelligent alien life form. Well, where did they come from? Richard? You know, But but again, it’s man’s attempts to justify why he lives in sin in our modern times. It seems like God made me do. It is the new mantra. In other words, I can go out and do whatever I want. God made me do it. Yeah. That may work with a toy manufacturer or a faulty car, but it doesn’t work with God, Right? I mean, we saw that with Adam and Eve inside the garden. It was the woman you gave me. Now listen, each man is, it’s a double whammy there. If you listen to it, it’s the woman you gave me. So it’s vertical and horizontal. Anything but itself, right? Yeah. And also that doesn’t work in a court of law. Judge read the woman. God made me like this. You’re going to jail. You know? How many times have you looked in the mirror today? Month? Why do you look in the mirror? What’s the point of looking into a mirror to see how we look reflects what we are in truth? Trust the mirror. Is it perfectly honest? No, it’s not perfectly honest. Because you also have to think about the person’s ideas and what they’re thinking of themselves. While they’re looking in the mirror, the mirror shows you yourself backwards. Yeah. It turns it turns out it’s a mirror image. It reverses us. You know, God’s given us a perfect mirror to look into. You know what it is? It’s the 10 Commandments in the Book of James. Whoever looks into the Perfect law of Liberty, it’s a perfect law that we look into because it reflects what we are. Now, Do you think you’re a good person? How many lies have you told in your life ever stolen something as a kid? Have you ever used God’s name in vain as a kid, jesus said, If you look with lust, you commit adultery in your heart. Have you ever looked with lust as a kid? You had sex before marriage. Let me tell you what the mirror says. Okay, I’m not judging you. This is for you to judge yourself by the reflection of God’s law. You’ve told me you’re relying thieving, blasphemous, fornicating adulterer at heart. So here’s the big question If God judges you by the 10 Commandments on judgment day, you’re gonna be innocent or guilty, guilty heaven, or hell, hell, according to that, does that concern you? Um not really in a sense, it does, because we don’t know if it’s 100% true, but it doesn’t How do I know the bible? We’ll know if God says that it’s 100% true, and the bible from beginning to end, including the words of jesus, warn of a terrible place where God will have his day of justice, and all you have to do is think for a few moments, if God is good, he must punish evil, he must punish the nazis, rapists, murderers. And he’s so good, the scripture says he’s gonna punish thieves and liars and fornicators and blasphemers and adulterers, and his judgment is according to righteousness, very severe. You know, we’re surrounded by severe laws like gravity. If you upset gravity and don’t do what it says, just fall 10 ft on your head, it’s going to kill you. Uncompromising. Would you say that you yourself are a good person. I don’t know how to answer that. I’ve done some good things and I’ve done some bad things. So let me throw those 10 commandments at you, that I mentioned earlier, I’m a Christian? I grew up in the Middle East like you did and I grew up in a certain faith tradition, but then I came to a point in my life where that question of morality came to the surface because at one time or another I think it comes up for everybody whether or not someone is a christian or a jew or a muslim or as an atheist, I think at some point, all of us look in the mirror and ask ourselves, uh, am I a moral person, even if it’s by our own standard, right? Am I a good person or not, Judaism would acknowledge the 10 commandments? Christians would Muslims, you know, they would acknowledge the people of the book, you know, and and recognize that there are those moral standards. So, if I were to ask you slater, uh, how many lies would you say you’ve told over the course of your lifetime, what would you say? I have no idea. White Lies a lot. Big lies, Not so much, but you would say probably if you were to look over the course of your life more than you could probably recall or account, because that wo was indicative of something for sure. Have you ever at any point in your life taken anything that didn’t belong to you, regardless of its value or how long ago it was, whether you were a kid or not or if it was a big or small, um taking something that’s not mine. No. Have you ever used God’s name in vain? Like oh my G. O. D. Uh Jesus said this one of the commandment says you shall not commit adultery, but jesus said, if you look at a woman to lust after her, you’ve committed adultery already with her. If you look at a woman to lust after her means to have sexual desire for her in your heart, you’ve committed adultery already with her in your heart. Have you ever done that for sure? Have you always honored your parents now as an arab man? That’s an important question. In what regard have you ever disobeyed your parents? Yeah, of course. So slater, I throw that out at you as a christian. We all have to come from our world view and our perspective, I look at you and I see those symptoms, this isn’t comfortable for me, especially with a fellow Arab. But you know, it’s an awkward thing telling the guy, hey, you’re a liar thief, adultery, blasphemy, murder sourcer. But the reason I do it is because I care about you, you know, I’m willing to stand here and risk you thinking, you know, certain things about me, you being uncomfortable, you’re not liking this, but the reason why I’m sharing this with you is simply because I care. No one’s paying me to do this. I’m not obligated to do it. I’m definitely not doing it to get to heaven because it’s a christian, my eternal state is sealed. It’s a free gift from God that’s been given to me. But I share this with you because I care about you. If you love someone else the same gender or if you are not in a Position to have a child or person, yeah, that person needs to make their own decision. Like other people’s beliefs should not have, you know, power over your other people’s freedom, right? We shouldn’t be able to harm other people, right. Do you believe that it’s a baby in the womb doesn’t have a heartbeat potentially yet. So 21 days it has a heartbeat. Okay then. I don’t know. But it doesn’t think yet. Right? So it’s like when do you, when when do you draw a line? Yeah. I mean, that’s that’s an interesting question, Right? We begin to think, well, if we don’t, Isn’t that interesting? Is that weird as a woman standing here with Yeah. All men and you guys talking about my choice as a woman and my body. This is not a not a comfortable position for me to be, isn’t it? Yeah. I mean, I would have to say explaining the most important thing that we and very traumatic thing that we as women have to go through and it’s very um, I don’t feel comfortable just do you think that I mean, so I think that seems to be a valid point that’s coming along. If somebody’s going to interject any sort of an opinion towards something. Do they have to put themselves in that position? Right. If I wanted to talk about homelessness, do I have to actually be homeless or if I want to have an opinion about war? Say we should not we need to stop the war. Do I need to be a general in the war? It could be my body and my choices specifically in my life. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with four random men telling me what to do with that. And do you feel like we’re telling you what to do with your body? No, I’m just saying like it was just weird watching two men talk about abortion when I’m standing right here as a woman. So just like it’s a it’s a touching sub for women to be listened to by men. You think a man should be able to have a say in any way shape or form about abortion of course. And where does the fall off happen in the end? It’s the woman’s choice. Mansplaining must be one of my absolutely. I just love the sound of it. But Mark is that the go to now when someone wants to just shut you down. You’re mansplaining So you can’t talk to you know what my temptation was guys was to say what is mansplaining? And then as soon as she explained it I would say, are you a woman explaining I wish she would have done that. There were so many times where I was thinking, I don’t want to lose this interview. I don’t want to lose her. And there was so much things that I could have said to her to kind of overpower what she was saying philosophically, but that’s not the goal. We’re not trying to win an argument. We want to win. The soul. Actually thought you did a really good job of that, showing patience and grace. Because I know all the things you wanted to say. But I knew that she would have walked away and I think that your hope and that your goal and your aim ultimately was to get to the gospel and you don’t want to lose her before doing that. It’s amazing how much power mantras have. And if you think about how many times you’ve heard that mantra, it’s a woman’s choice. Um it’s become like a sacred thing that is immediately thrown out to just kind of make you think, oh, how dare you even question this. So Mark, where do you usually go with that? When someone throws that out? It’s a woman’s choice. So it was a choice. A choice to do what I want them to say it. A choice to abort abort what abort a baby? Is that a woman’s choice to murder another human being. And I think that those two words kind of get hijacked into the conversation, a woman’s right to choose to murder. The essence of what they’re saying is I choose what’s life and what’s not. And it comes back to a lack of the fear of God where everyone does that which is right in their own eyes. And uh as as a nation, as a world, we really have lost the fear of God. If anything’s offensive contemporary society, it’s the fear of God. You mentioned the fear of God and the bristles go up on the neck. But that’s the beginning of wisdom and that’s the beginning of the healing, the society. You’re familiar with. The bible verse. The wages of sin is death romans 6 23. It says this, the wages of sin is death. In other words, God is paying you in death for your sins. Sinners so serious. He’s given you the death sentence like a judge looks at a heinous criminal that’s raped three girls and strangled him to death. He says you’ve earned the death sentence that your wages, what’s due to you. This is what we’re paying you for, what you’ve done. And sin is so serious to a holy God has given you the death sentence and death is just the first installment. He says he will damn you because you have used his name in the place of a filth word, beginning with s to express disgust. Please think about your sins and think how serious it is in the eyes of God. Not in our eyes we say, oh yeah, I’ve lied and stolen when I was a kid. It’s no big deal, but it’s a big deal to God. Can you hear what I’m saying? So what did God do for guilty sinners? So we wouldn’t have to go to hell. Do you remember died on the cross for us? Most people know that, but they don’t know this and this is life changing. If you can get a group of it, the 10 commandments are called the moral law. You and I broke the law, Jesus paid the fine. That’s why I said on the cross it is finished. You remember him saying that he was saying the debt has been paid if you’re in court and someone pays your fine, a judge can let you go legally. You can say there’s a stack of speeding fines here. This is deadly serious, but you’re free to go. Someone paid your fine and God can let you live forever legally, even though you’re guilty because jesus paid the fine on a cross rose from the dead and feet of death and all you have to do to find everlasting life is repent of your sins. Turn from them and trust in jesus, don’t trust your goodness. It’s not gonna save you. It’s like someone jumping out of a plane trusting they’re going to save themselves by flapping their arms. No they’re not. I’d say trust the parachute. Don’t trust yourself. So don’t trust your goodness, trust in the Savior. Can you hear what I’m saying is making sense to think seriously about this, I will again. Yeah. Could you do it with a sense of urgency because you don’t know when you’re gonna die, You know, you don’t realize this, but I deeply care about you and the thought of you dying in your sins and being damned by God. It’s so horrific. It takes my breath away. It’s so scary and you don’t realize how scary it is, but we’re talking about your eternity, This is your forever. So I want you to think about it with that sense of sobriety. What do you do that? I will based on your understanding of Christianity, what would someone in your state need to do in order to avoid God’s judgment and how and get everlasting life. I just don’t think about the world in that way. And I don’t think about it as black or white as that. Um you know what I mean? It’s just I’m a different person. I have respect for your views, but I certainly wouldn’t never live based on them because I have had a very different journey, but my encouragement to slater is to really ask yourself the question who was this, jesus christ of Nazareth? Because if he was who he said he was, then there are consequences for not acknowledging who he was and not receiving what he did because the greatest message that this world could ever here is the fact that even though we send against a Holy God, we’ve broken his commandments. We’ve lied, stolen, committed all these things. We deserve his wrath and judgment in his love. He came down in the person of christ went to across bore the wrath of God in the place of sinners because the bible says without the shedding of blood, there’s no forgiveness for sin. And then three days later, rose again from the dead. And so my encouragement to you as a fellow human being. And as a fellow Arab would be to recognize on the basis of what God says, you’re showing those symptoms, you are in danger of eternal judgment. The only cure is through what jesus christ did by dying on the cross and rising again from that. And if you repent and place your faith in him, God will wipe away every sin you’ve ever committed and give you everlasting life. Now, if we were in the Middle East, we might kill each other. But look at how isn’t it cool how we can talk about this like this? That’s the greatest thing about it’s probably why we’re both here is because we can talk about this. We can disagree. We can, you know, have constructive conversation and you know, my I can sense that your energy is good and pure and I respect that and I appreciate it. And I appreciate you asking these questions. Thank you. I really appreciate this conversation and I hope you think about this man. You know, again some some crazy fellow arab off the street. Neither neither you or Yeah. Food for thought. Think about it because again when we’re talking about eternity, forever, those are big questions and we should we should definitely care enough to stop and say I need to really give this some thought. Maybe I haven’t thought about jesus much, I should give them a second thought. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I appreciate it man. Thanks a lot. My pleasure awesome dude, you nailed it bro. Yeah, so that was really good. It definitely like you ask good questions. I definitely would not have guessed. I know I mean either I didn’t even cross my mind kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier. Like if your choices don’t affect other people in a negative way, then go with it, believe it, do it act it like great. But if you’re going to put your choices and your decisions on somebody else, but even somebody as far away from you as a different gender and that’s gonna have a completely different experience and a different emotional scale completely. That crosses a boundary. My final question concerning that would be is it your body or is it inside of your body? Right? Is it a separate D. N. A. Is it possibly a different blood type? Because if it is your body and like I said I’m not gonna belabor this um if you’re pregnant with a male well then you’re half male. Half female. Or if you’re pregnant with two male babies twins right then you’re more male than female. Do you know that it’s a human being. Did you talk to the embryo? There’s two sciences. It’s the science of biogenesis and the science of embryology. The science of biogenesis says well you and I feel very uncomfortable. I would like like I said you no problem no problem. But you would ask the questions. I was just looking at you know it’s just I was just trying to point out to you that you don’t really know and none of us. And that’s why I started with like all I know is that I don’t know. Um And that we’re on planet Earth just to be and soon I am going to die and I’ve experienced a lot of loss in my life so I’m gonna I’m gonna live it’s a part of life and I don’t feel the need to be sorry because it’s just part of it and want to move on. Um But we’re just here to be and we’re here to be happy and I’m gonna do what makes me feel best and I’m never gonna harm anybody else unless it’s a baby right. It’s not a baby I’m not gonna according to the science it is very very awful. I don’t mean I’m just saying you can have a position once again. Okay, So this is what you do. So next time before you start talking to people, especially women, if you’re going to bring up the topic of abortion, bring bring, I don’t know. But I mean if you’re going to bring it up in general in any way pa shape or form tell the people before you start interviewing them. Like the topics the he brought it up. Just the topics of Christianity and like all of that, because you just said life and death, you didn’t necessarily say that you’re gonna start attacking women for getting aboard. I appreciate your time though. But it really wasn’t my intention to make you feel uncomfortable. All right. You know, we live in a day and age where men are not allowed to have a voice about what women believe and at the same time, gender can be fluid, which means if you’re born without a uterus, you can still be a woman and you’re mansplaining if you try to explain something or somebody asks a question, right? It was insane there that that guy brought up the subject of abortion. But now I can’t talk about abortion, but he can bring it up as long as I don’t have an opinion about it. That’s insane. You guys ever feel like when you’re witnessing someone asks you a question in a way that indicates they’re really not expecting you to have an answer? That’s how I felt with when she said to you, Is it really a human being? Do you really know? And and then you came at it with you know, your answer. And so but but Mark, how did you feel it? Because then she didn’t want you to answer when she realized you had an answer. She just wanted to cut it off. Yeah, that’s usually the case. And with her, I wanted to get into the science of embryology, the science of biogenesis and both of them are biblical. Each species will bring forth after their own kind. That’s biogenesis. In embryology. You are distinct, unique individual from the moment of fertilization. But you can see from the video that she wanted to have nothing to do with that. That’s often the case. It’s interesting because a lot of people want to assume that our idea that it is a human being is theological, but I often will tell them something similar that that fact is known theologically philosophically and biologically. It is a universally understood idea that we are dealing with a human life. Yeah, Ray. The typical response and we’ve addressed it to some degree, but it’s it’s not fully formed, right? But it’s like we look at you you’re you have a beard. It’s not fully formed, but we call it a beard. But but no, I mean the whole body is not fully true. But no, I mean Mark always points that out as well. It’s that none of us are fully developed. Sometimes it’s so frustrating talking to someone who’s already made their mind up. I remember I was talking to one young lady who was so adamant that it was okay to kill a child in the womb. So I thought I’ll get the puppies that will soften her heart and say, would you kill a puppy? And she said, yeah, just tell us hardened heart. It’s also one of the arguments from the Nuremberg trials, trials that those who are mentally disabled weren’t fully formed, that they weren’t fully human. What makes you a human being isn’t your capacity to live your capability to think or reason, what makes you a human being is that you were created in God’s image period. We hope this episode of way of the Master has inspired you to share the Gospel with others. You can watch our award winning movies and listen to the living Waters podcast freely at Living Waters dot com where you’ll also find articles, ebooks, videos, audio content, digital resources and gospel tracts, including our popular starter kit with four of our top gospel tracts to help you share your faith Biblically and effectively make sure to visit Living Waters dot com today

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