Where is the Garden of Eden Today?
the following program is made possible by the Friends and partners of God quest ministries. So where is the Garden of Eden today Anyway, Well from the Ctn studio in Pensacola florida, This is the Creation Today show and we’re gonna be answering that question on one of your hosts, eric open and this is paul taylor. And on today’s show we’re going to be asking about what the days of Peleg were questioning whether the laws of thermodynamics really apply to the creation and evolution and asking, as you said, where the garden of Eden is today, If you’ve got questions, we’ve got answers straight from God’s word, You can ask them at questions at Creation today dot org. Join us on facebook facebook dot com slash Creation today. We believe the bible is literally true and scientifically accurate. We are having a great day here in Pensacola florida and are looking forward to in just a few weeks being up in the opposite corner of the United States Oregon. That’s right. We’re taking a trip to Oregon to Portland Oregon And there’s going to be a conference there at the Holiday Inn near the airport in Portland’s the Creation Northwest Conference. The Northwest Creation Conference. The Northwest Creation Conference. Which you can find out what you can find out about at Creation in w for Northwest Creation nw dot org. Would love to see you there at the conference and it’s gonna be on february 11. So if you’re in the area or you want to fly in, We’d love to see you up there at that conference, would be fun. And of course that the diagonally opposite corner of the United States, there will be a conference in october of this year in, in Orlando. That’s true. I can’t figure out why would people go to the northwest in february? Isn’t that when it’s freezing up there? Yes, come on. We like to schedule meetings down south in the winter, up north in the summer. That’s the way we like to handle things. Don’t always work out that way, but we’ve got it figured out for the proof of God conference though. That’s right because that’s going to be in sunny Orlando. That’s gonna be beautiful. Gonna be marvelous. And you and I are speaking and we’ve got site in Bruggen cate we’ve got carl Kirby, we’ve got Mark Mark Spence man. It’s it is really gonna be a great time. A couple of days there, friday and saturday free chick fil a lung is going to be provided and I’d encourage you to go to proof conference dot com proof conference dot com in order to register or get more information about that. It’s really gonna be a good event. Get a move on for that too because the early bird discount is still available at the moment. So people like me out there and get your, get your registration in early, you know, I think we ought to mention one of our websites too. I think we should mention Creation Store dot org. Great website, tons of incredible resources from lots of different ministries are put on Creation Store dot org And they’re put there to to strengthen, strengthen people’s faith in God’s word. Absolutely. It’s very, I mean we’re biased because we’re they’re excited by but you know, I think people enjoy looking at, if you’re driving past, you’ll notice the dinosaurs and you can come on in and talk to us. What are you talking about are on location one the one here in Pensacola florida talking about that. Of course there is the website one but actually call in there is of course a dinosaur ride. Isn’t that? It is incredible. We just got an 18 ft long, nine ft tall apatosaurus that is rideable. The kids get to go for a ride on this apatosaurus, it’s really neat. Don’t go very far. You don’t go down the street, you know, because we don’t want to terrorize the locals. So we get the reins on it. We’re good. I love that. So if you’re in Pensacola, make sure to stop by the Creation store and pay us a visit at 5800 North W Street. Good questions. We’ve got some brilliant questions to answer. And the first one, it’s a very long question, in fact from scott. But the gist of it is this he said, what about the days of Peleg? What were they? What does it mean about the earth being divided. Was this the time when the continents were spread apart. You know, we ought to mention that you can’t really get a fully definitive answer from what it says in genesis. Let me read genesis 10 25 says let me find it here. Uh this is going through the genealogies and so and so begat so and so and so and so begat so and so and then it throws this little interesting phrase in right in the middle of genesis chapter 10. And it just, it just comes out of nowhere and then goes right back to genealogies. It says to Ebro were born two sons. The name of one was Peleg for in his days the earth was divided and so and so we get so and so and so and so we get so and so then it moves right on. But it mentions right here that in Pilate’s day the earth was divided. So what happened there? Well, I mean there are a couple of different possible explanations there. And yes, there’s one explanation that some people have is that maybe the continents were divided at that stage. But it’s also interesting to notice that polices birth would have been, if you look at the various generations his birth would have been during the lifetime, right in the middle of the lifetime of Nimrod. That’s right. Nimrod is an interesting character. He’s the one who was building a tower. Well, we think he was the one who is building a tower. We certainly know that he was the one. He says he’s a mighty hunter. And really what it’s saying when he says, it’s a mighty hunter before the Lord, he’s really saying he’s a mighty hunter in the face of the Lord. It’s like saying he’s someone who shakes his fist at God and we know that we know he built Babylon. That was one of the things that he did. So maybe he was the person in control in Babylon at the time when the Tower of Babel was built soapy legs, time Brain matches up with the Tower of Babel, in which case the division could be the division of the people groups across the world. That’s one possible suggestion. How do we know that? Because we’ve got a chart backwards. We’ve got a chart that shows us this. This thing is incredible. If you’ve never seen Adam’s chart of history, this is available at the creation store. This is awesome, man. It is 23 ft long and it, man, it goes through all of history. Now, I gotta fold it and we got to find P leg and nimrod which should be right around here somewhere. All of history. Up until 18 76 because it was designed for the 1\/100 anniversary of the United States of America. But here, right here we got, I don’t know if the lighting is any good on this here. And if you get this chart maybe we can get a better picture of it for you guys. You see that the leg is right in there, yep, right there. And in his days the earth was divided? That’s right at the same time the Tower of Babel was going on. So here’s p legs birth. And he lived on and it shows what else is going on in the world while this is happening. And you can see that the Tower of Babel, the end of the time, the Tower of Babel, the people, the languages were confused and they were split up was right there in the legs day. So it’s very interesting. They must have been very unusual at the time of the Tower of Babel. You know one of them, he wants to say, can you Pass me the hammer, please jim. And all the other person here says pass walmart and you know, just couldn’t understand each other. Now you must have because I’m going I wish I could throw another language at you. But I don’t know. I wonder what that would have been like. That really would have been wild to all of a sudden have this diversification and that is what caused the people to spread out around the world like God told them to do to begin with. That’s right. I mean, they didn’t have to be like that, did they? God told them gave them a command after after the flood to scatter and to fill the earth and to subdue it? That’s what he told them to do. Did they do what he told them to do? I don’t know what we’re suggesting then, is that when Nimrod and others by building these cities, trying to keep people in one place, if we write about what Nimrod means and he was, in a sense, the world’s first military dictator, There’s one bit where he says that he went into Asher that could have been a military invasion. It could have been the fact he was the world’s first military dictator. That sort of like we got genghis genghis khan and you’ve got napoleon, you’ve got Hitler and so on. And maybe the first one of those was Nimrod. You know, another idea about the days of p like being divided. I’ve heard some people say that’s when God took the continents and spread them apart. Now we, I know we see evidence of that, but we would put that more towards during the flood at the beginning of the flood. When that took place, we would suggest that that’s the division of the physical division of continental place would probably have taken place in the first couple of days. The 1st 45 days or so of the of the flood. It’s a theory have been developed by creation is called the catastrophic plate tectonics correct. And then there’s another idea out there that says, okay, possibly the days of the leg, when the earth was divided is when the ice caps were retreating from the ice age. And it added water to the ocean levels. The ocean levels came up to a certain degree where finally land bridges that had been connecting all these contents were no longer connected. And of course the, both those could go together. They could go together. Indeed. So what were the days of their divided? Either people or land or both? Those are the options. Those are the possibilities. That’s right. Another question coming up right after this, Welcome back, You’re still watching the Creation today’s show with me, paul taylor and with eric Hovan hope you’re still watching. We got some good stuff on the leg there. Those are the ideas. Well, if you’re not watching, then there’s no need for us to talk to them. So that they turned off the television. But we were talking about about you say p leg and I say Peleg and you say tomato and I say tomorrow. You got it all wrong. You brits over there. I know you sound smart, but you say something’s totally wrong. Okay. I would probably say as a brit that some people reckon the language of Shakespeare is probably closer to american english and british english. And you said reckon we are turning him into a southerner man. Well, paul reckon too, which is absolutely you know what we’re talking about? The days of Peleg. Peleg, whatever you say, as one of the Corollaries to the question we talked about, we just briefly mentioned the catastrophic plate tectonic theory, one of the theories about how the the continental plates could have moved apart at the beginning of the flood. And that would be going beyond the question to say too much about it. But if you’re interested in finding out more about that, there is a superb two volume work called Earth’s Catastrophic passed by Dr Andrew Snelling. This is an absolutely superb, but it is very, very difficult, is a scientific stuff like I started you on and I’m like, okay, you really gotta want to know the stuff to get into that. This is one of those books that you have to have and put on your bookshelf. You may well not read it through. I must refer to it. That’s where you go. You gotta go check it out. I’ve referred to it, I’ve not read through it yet. But one of the interesting things about it, if you look at the, the chapters in the chapter divisions, you’ll think I recognize that. And the reason why you recognize it is because the chapter divisions are pretty much the same as in the famous book, the Genesis Flood by Henry Morris and john Whitcomb. And in fact, there’s an endorsement in here by john Whitcomb. There’s a forward by john Morris and of course the late Henry Morris had actually asked Andrew Snelling to produce an update to the genesis flood. So this is it, Andrew wanted to give it a new name. But I know you can get that from a number of, of creationist organizations around the world. I got mine from i c r dot Okay, yeah, great, great place to get stuff and we need to, we need to mention by the way the genesis flood that Henry Morris wrote really, was the Kickstarter to the creation movement, right? It was last year 2011 was the 50th anniversary of the publication of that book. And it it is, I mean, Henry Morris, known as the grandfather of the creation movement, really started it and that book had significant influence literally around the world, especially here in America starting the whole creation movement. What people need to remember with Andrew’s book is that the theology is still the same. The theology hasn’t changed because the bible hasn’t changed exactly. Of course the science has, the science has developed and we need we needed new scientific comments for the 21st century, but that the theology is still exactly the same. Some really, really good stuff. And we got another question we want to hit here. Dale has a question concerning the second law of thermodynamics and he’s not a very friendly guy to us, but we’ll just get straight to the question most creations say that due to this law we lose energy or gain entropy, which is disorder, things break down and or break apart, but victor, this guy victor is Stinger Stinger sites water as a counter example, that when you lose energy, it actually becomes more structured in the form of water and eventually ice as opposed to breaking down and becoming more disordered state like a gas. He suggests we can apply this principle to other things in the universe as well. So what do you think about this? It seems to run contrary to the second law of thermodynamics? And you know, like most a lot of skeptics out there, they’ll say your creations don’t even understand the Second law of thermodynamics. You guys shouldn’t even use it because you don’t understand it. It probably is true that some creationists have misused the Second law of thermodynamics at some stages. What what people have said is sometimes some creationists said, well, the second law of thermodynamics couldn’t have existed before the fall. Now, that’s clearly not the case. For example, friction is a non conservative force and therefore only works because of the second law of thermodynamics, But friction must have existed before the fall. Otherwise, Adam and Eve would have been walking around in the garden of Eden like being on an ice ring. So there must have been friction there. But what what is the cases that creations have quite rightly pointed out the Second law of thermodynamics talks about increasing disorder. And so what we’ve said is that evolution doesn’t fit with that now, it goes against it actually, and it is a valid point to say, look, you don’t start with rock and get human beings without going against the second law of thermodynamics. And we really ought to hit all all the laws real quick. Just so they know what we do understand these laws before we before we just mentioned the laws. So here’s the here’s the trick because what’s the evolutionist of studies, you creations don’t understand this because the second law of thermodynamics applies to a closed system, not an open system where the Earth is an open system, because you’ve got the Sun’s energy coming in. But it’s not just the Earth. If you’ve got the Sun’s energy coming into the earth that does not in itself create order. If it did, you can imagine sticking a dead leaf down in the sun and when the sun’s heated it up, what you got a hot, deadly hot dead leave, nothing else. Yeah, it doesn’t it doesn’t add anything to it. That’s right for the to actually get the chemicals being produced, you need information. And yeah, and life, plant life information. So with with that example, it is not. And by the way, when you, when you go outside of our earth, the universe as a whole will have to be considered a closer definition is the closest there’s nothing outside it, so that it fails miserably, we understand the laws of thermodynamics Four laws altogether. The first law says that energy can’t be created or destroyed. Just changed from one to another. The second law says that in that energy change. I’m paraphrasing it a bit here. The message version. The second law of thermodynamics, energy has changed from one form to another. During that change. Some energy is going to be wasted usually in the form of low temperature heat. The third that’s called entropy. The measure of the loss of energy. The entropy, the third law says that a perfect crystal at absolute zero has has no entropy. Um That’s interesting. You can’t lose anything and that really just sort of contradicts what the substance is in this question will come to then they realized that there must be a law before the first law. So they have to call it the zeroth law. Which says that if two systems are in thermal equilibrium with a third, then there must be in thermal equilibrium with each other. The practical application of that is you stick a thermometer in this one measure its temperature, stick a thermometer in that one. If it’s the same temperature is because the thermometer is the third. Sis therefore they must be in thermal with each other. Okay, so is water going from a gas to a liquid to a solid as you lose energy? Is that actually doing what he says here with the second gaining information. The answer is no, it isn’t because the molecules are still the same. The shape of the ice crystal is due to the arrangement of the atoms. It’s inherent in the system. So as you cool down the water and it freezes to form these beautiful ice crystals. You are not adding energy. That is not analogous to the positioning of the various proteins based groups in D. N. A. Is not analogous to that. I mean, you may get proteins but you’re not gonna get D. N. A. You’re not going to get the information that is encoded there in D. N. A. And that’s really what really the whole intelligent design movement is all about. Is is is that is that you can’t have just this, it’s gonna have to have information put into it. It’s gonna have to be arranged in the right way. That’s right. So it’s this question of information that really matters. You’re not gaining information when you’re cooling water to turn into ice, you need information and people are forgetting this. When evolutionists say that we don’t understand the second law of thermodynamics, they have forgot the whole business of information. That information can only be created by an outside intelligence. You know, If his theory is true though, I should be able to set you on fire, add lots of energy and can make you even better arranged. You want to try it. I could do with being better arranged. I might lose some weight. But this this idea of, okay, if you add the heat and then you know, let you cool back off. It’s gonna be better arrange. No, that’s not, not necessarily doesn’t make much sense does it whatsoever. And we got some more questions coming right up. Come visit us at the creation store located at 5800 North W Street, Suite nine in Pensacola florida. Just look for the two big dinosaurs out front here. You will find lots of products from charts and graphs to books and Dvds as well as many other items. All explaining the truth about our great creator. While you’re here, check out our new and exciting science center which includes displays like our giant ant farm collection of ica stones, a 7.5 ft snake in much more. It’s all at the creation store located at the corner of W Street and airport boulevard in Pensacola, Welcome back to Creation Today where we’re answering your questions. Remember we’d love to answer some more of your questions if you want to send them into questions at Creation today. Also check out our website Creation today 0.0. R. G. You know, in the last segment eric dale asked, what did we have any resources on the subject of the Second law? Thermodynamics, reasonably easy to understand resources. And of course there are and they knew answers books. They’ve done a great job going through quite a few different questions and giving great solid biblical answers that man, how do you argue when you’ve got the truth. I feel sorry for people to try to argue against the truth. It’s like you really need this situation? You really need this resource. There’s nearly 100 questions in total and all those three and I know there’s a discount if you get all three and of course you can get those from creation store dot org and it’s it’s a marvelous place. You’ve got a article on thermodynamics and you’ve got an article on on the question that we’re about to answer in a moment as well so that they’re in there as well. But perhaps I should also mention there’s some new products that answers in Genesis has come out with called the answers book for teens. Done an incredible job with us. And let me tell you the content in here hits home, right. Exactly what teenagers are asking today. This is incredible. My good friend brody Hodges producers put this together along with ken, ham and Tommy Mitchell And it’s just got it’s just very, very good quality stuff. Lots of really good pictures and so on inside it and it’s just an exciting layout. Very good information, exceptional work. Good job. Angie keep up the great we got another question here that we want to answer. Uh and who asked Brittany Brittany? Yeah, she said I was wondering does the bible mention what happened to the garden of Eden after Adam and Eve were kicked out. Where was it? Does it still still exist somewhere today. What happened to it? This is a really good question. Because you hear about this all the time. I don’t know whether you got this in, in the United States, but certainly in 2003 when there was the invasion of Iraq. One of the things that the BBC kept saying on their news reports, this is the site of the legendary garden of Eden and they were just coming out. They said, that’s it. Huh? Absolutely. Now I’ve heard a couple different theories on where the Garden of Eden could be today. I think we need to address. Well, we think about it. But here’s some of the theories I’ve heard. I’ve heard that, you know, it still is where the Tigris and Euphrates river are because hey, the bible says that there were four rivers and one was tigers and one of the Euphrates. So it’s got to be right. Yes. Tammy in valley. But then that could place in one or two places. It could place it somewhere near the sources of the rivers up in the mountains. That’s true. Or it could place it where the two rivers flow together just before they flow into the, I think it’s the Persian gulf. And really, that doesn’t work anywhere when you think about it because there were four rivers that had the same source or different sources. One sources, one river out of Eden divided into four. That’s correct. Where are the other two rivers anyway. I don’t remember the name of that. Might have to look it up. But the point is there not there not there not there in that particular. What what are they what? I can never remember. And I think it’s the python and the have nots in genesis chapter two that you should have turned to that before. But there it is there and therefore the point is there are four streams. Those are the two are not there. So it doesn’t make a lot of sense to say that’s the size of the garden of Eden. That one really doesn’t work. Okay. Here’s another one. I’ve heard the idea of where christ was crucified is the same place where Abraham was going to offer Isaac. I can buy that, I can, I can see that. And therefore that is where the garden of Eden was. I like that idea better. But it is still problematic. And the reason why it’s problematic is if you look at the end of genesis chapter three, what happened to the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden, it says that God drove out the man and he placed cherubim at the east of the Garden of Eden and a flaming sword which turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. Now I must admit I have not been to Jerusalem personally, have you? I have not had that chance. No. But I do know people who’ve been there. They haven’t reported to me about being a garden there with the Cherubim Outside. You think that would be on the I think so. I think you know certainly you should be able to find it on google earth right here shining, That’s great satellite image. So I’m being facetious here. But there is an important point here. If you go back to the whole idea about the tigris and the euphrates, the tigris and the Euphrates are flowing over sedimentary rock. It’s true. Why should that be significant? Because we believe that sedimentary rock was laid down at the time of the flood, sedimentary rock is the rock that contains fossils. By definition, you will find fossils in sedimentary rock. Therefore, the rock underneath the tigris and Euphrates was laid down in the flood. Which means that the tigris and Euphrates flowing over them cannot be the same Tigris and Euphrates as the ones mentioned flowing out of the garden of. Exactly because there wouldn’t have been fossils there unless you ross is right. And I don’t think he’s right. So this that’s significant. Now, what are we saying then, the Tigris and Euphrates have gone. The Garden of Eden is gone. Where’s he gone? Well, let me read some passages out of this is genesis chapter seven. It talks about the flood. And there’s a couple of passages now. The flood was on the Earth 40 days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark and it rose above the earth. The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth. The ark was moved about, the surface of the water and the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth. All the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed 15 cubits upward and the mountains were covered off flesh died that moved on the earth birds, cattle, beasts, creeping thing. The earth was destroyed. So the garden of Eden was destroyed. God had put there was destroyed during the flood. Well, hold on a minute, there’s a problem with what you and I have just been saying there isn’t there? Because people would say, well hold on, it’s the Tigris and the Euphrates. Why they called the Tigris and Euphrates. Well, it only makes sense that when they got off the ark they found some rivers and they renamed them the same thing that they were before they knew the names, didn’t they? You know if we got in a car here and drove out of Pensacola northwards. And you keep going just a couple of different change of direction. You will eventually is that northwards, you will eventually reach a place called Birmingham. I think it’s called Birmingham Birmingham. That’s correct. Except the one, there is one in England and I used to live not too far away from, it was called Birmingham. Actually, it was called Birmingham because british listeners will know that in Birmingham? They can’t breathe through the door like that? Absolutely! That’s how they talk. So why is Birmingham Alabama called Birmingham? Why? Why? Just marvelous coincidence? There isn’t obviously, it’s the same place. It is different damage. Of course, it’s named after the Birmingham in England and there’s a lot of those around the world today that exist, isn’t it massachusetts? Even boston boston is named after a village in lincolnshire, where the Mayflower settlers gathered together before they made the trip to Plymouth to get on the boat to come over to America boston and boston. So tigers and Euphrates just happens to be the same name. It doesn’t necessarily mean that they are the same exact rivers that existed in the garden and we’re saying it can’t be because they’re on that sedimentary rock and we’ve just read from God’s word, which is always going to be this is the foundation. That’s always the answer. That’s that everything was destroyed. The whole earth was destroyed. Yeah, there’s some other verses to second peter 36 in the world and then the one then was being overflowed with water perished and of course second Peter 35, the the scoffers are willingly ignorant of the flood, deliberately forgetting man, we wanna thank you guys so much for joining us for creation today. If you have questions, please send them into questions at creation today dot org. Remember you can twitter us at creation today or go to our facebook page facebook dot com forward slash Creation today and these shows are archived on there. So Creation Today dot org is where you can go and listen to these podcasts or get them on D v d. 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