The Age of the Earth and Where It Came from

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John talks to Eric and Paul about the questions that he gets asked most often.



the following program is made possible by the friends and partners of God quest ministries from the C. T. N. Studio in Pensacola florida, this is creation today where we believe the bible is literally true and scientifically accurate and were not ashamed to say. So I’m one of your hosts, eric Donovan and I’m paul taylor and we’re here each episode to answer your questions on the bible and on science and cover what’s going on in creation today. And for the second episode running, we’re privileged to be joined by john McKay, the International Director of Creation Research. How are you folks looking forward to learning more about the research you’re doing down there and the things that we’re discovering, it is absolutely amazing. You guys enjoy the show. We’re excited about the show today because we’ve got special guest john McKay all the way from Australia. Did you fly in? Not directly, I sort of came via Canada and down. So I’m heading back south because I’m from the real south, the real south. The real down under uh we’re excited to have him, if you want to get a hold of his ministry, he’s done some incredible research which is available at creation research dot dot net. Yes. I also want to let you know that the new edition of the CSC current is out and we invite you to get get ahold of that at Creation today dot org forward slash current where we do a lot of articles in there. Well, we’re excited to have you, I want to get right into some of the research that you’re doing And uh Paul, I know you and Jon have known each other for a number of years. Is that right? A very, very long time back. A couple of centuries also. Yeah. Well what was interesting when we were talking yesterday, Paul, you said actually I first met you back in 1980, you named the church and you remember the lady that was there at the church. And I went, how do you do that? God has blessed you with a really he has. There’s no doubt about it. I don’t know how I do that, but it just happens and I’ll take advantage of it. And he remembers all these things. Well, well remember for us, if you would the question you’re most often asked, what is it that you get asked about a lot. Well, the funniest version of the commonest questions I was running a youth meeting and my wife who doesn’t normally come to youth meetings, but she was sitting there and a young man put his hand up teenager and said, what’s the oldest fossil you’ve ever dated? I will guarantee my wife can read my mind. Look from her face was if you do so, I tried to answer it scientifically at the moment, there’s a real resurgence in questions about the age of things and I love to remind people, look, even if we could prove the world was millions of years old. There’s one question you haven’t answered. Where did it come from? That’s true because how old something is doesn’t change? Whether it proves creation or not, what it deals with is the other six days literal right? And then we go on to a second question. So I love to remind them, look, if I was digging up king tuts too and I found a nice round bench like this, what would the evidence that was created? Because everyone who walks into king tut’s tomb didn’t believe any of those objects happen by themselves. Because the creation is something that shows evidence that somebody existed before it. Somebody is not a part of it and somebody smarter than it actually made. Would like this bench here do things that would wouldn’t that’s that’s that’s a creation like this. Yeah. And what, what you find is the smarter the creator was, the less time they took. That’s how big companies make money. Put a smarter form and you cut time out. And obviously if you start plotting this up, the smarter you are, the faster the job gets done. The smarter Hey, if you’re all smart, how long do you take? How long you don’t? That’s right. You don’t need time. Time is the least important factor. So that’s what I first of all have to dismiss your asking me one question, but your meaning something else, right? And so that’s the commonest sort of attitude out there at the moment, the millions of years? So millions of years And what’s the best answer for why is the earth not millions of years old, why can we trust God’s word? Apart from the fact that this is God’s word. That’s a great reason to trust it. Why um scientifically do we look at this and say no, I’m going with this, not only because of what it says, but for christians out there, we’ve got great evidence to back it up. Okay, well come from two different directions. You see this gray hair, I’ve been on Planet Earth a few more years than you have three. At least at least three. That’s right. But what it tells me is that all the theories about how old the world was that I learned doing a geology degree in Queensland University, I’m old enough to know that they’ve all gone by the board and they’ve now got new theories and the new theories still disagree with the bible, even though they disagree with the old theories. Right? So there’s lesson number one Lesson. # two, coming from that side, one year, I had to give a presentation to the Oxford Union. Have you you’ve been to Oxford having you? Right, this is sort of a specialty group. I’ve been in the shopping center and I was there actually handing out copies of the Darwin’s original doing that with a special forward? That’s right, yes. So anyway, so I thought I’m going to go and do my extra research because I’m sure as eggs, this question will come up. So I’ve been following an aussie fossil, a fossil that was found in Australia in 1900 and 10. But of course those were the days of the British Empire, you know, and God was British and in the world and and Republican. And basically they took this fossil to the naturalist museum in England And I first came across at 1987. Now I’m a bit weird. I know, but I’m not just photographed fossils. I photographed the little labels down in the corner. You want to know what they say, what they say. And it said this fossil was found in ST Peter’s in Sydney and it’s 200 million years old. Okay, 1987. Well I went back there in 1999 the year I had to give this presentation. I thought I’ll just check up on my fossil. And here is a new label click. This is one of the only known specimens that of an Amphibian found in Australia 235 million years old and I thought It’s not 35 million years since I’ve been. So at that point I thought I’m going to get out the original shipping certificates and see how old it was when it left Australia and in 1900 and 10, guess how old it was. 6000. No, no, it was 100 and 80 million years old. 200 you realize we’ve got a lot of ladies out there who are watching and they think they’re aging fast. But this fossil, he aged 55 million years and only 70 years basically. And you think, hang on, if the 235 million years was a fact, you could not read the bible as real history. If the 200 million years was a fact, you could not. If the 180 you can get followed the argument. But the fact is they’re all just the latest phds, that’s all they are. And so the dates of planet Earth that contradict the bible. Well, I love to put it and tell people there’s plenty of opinions, plenty of theories that contradict everything in the bible, but the facts never do. That’s coming from the scientific end. Coming from the biblical end. The question I’ve learned to ask is okay, we like to say, how long would you need to make a planet? It’s the wrong question. The question should be given that the bible says jesus christ is the creator. How long would he need to make the planet? And the best example for christians is go to john chapter two and he turned water into wine. Okay. H 20. Gives C two H five oh H. Right now the breweries would love to find out how he did this. It would come over next to the bone, right? But in other words, H’s hydrogen. Oh his oxygen. But see is carbon. And he didn’t spit into it. He didn’t drop anything into it. He just spoke and that’s why it says in the beginning was the word. In other words, you don’t need time to turn water into wine. You need talent. And the more talent you’ve got, the less time you take. So when you go back to genesis, he didn’t need six days, he could have made the universe just like that. But he took six days for a reason. He tells us in exodus. I made the world in six days and I rested on the seventh. So you’ll work for six days and you will rest on the seventh. And he kept his own law. Because you remember when this jesus creator actually rested on the sabbath particularly mentioned did it deliberately. So we wouldn’t be working the day after he was crucified. He rested all day on the sabbath because it was vital that he keep the law, whether he was alive or whether he was dead. So we could be saved from our sins. This is great man. I want to continue this conversation and ask more of these questions because I love getting these solid answers and where we’re coming from the bible and of course, coming from the history of science, which both of you gentlemen have done. So I’m excited about this. I want to get into what the Atheist would say to that though and what they would respond to that, we’ll talk more about you and some of the work that you’ve done right after this break, that’s a good thing. Mhm, mm hmm mhm Yeah, welcome back. You’re watching Creation today with me paul taylor and with eric Haven’t and our special guest john McKay and we’re glad to have you with us with looking at questions on the subject of bible and science. And we we were talking before before the break about the big question debate, the debate that john had with the reverend doctor Professor sir, john Polkinghorne K B E F R S jolly clever man. Um at Liverpool Cathedral where our friend here john McKay just blew him out of the water because john Polkinghorne believes that you can mix evolution with Christianity and john showed on that debate that you can’t and if you want to get that, have a look at john’s website Creation Research dot net or if you want to ask him specific questions, go to ask john Mackay dot com, you can go and have a look at getting hold of this from Creation store dot org where you’ll be able to get lots of other interesting products to like of course the beginning series by our friend eric Hovan that’s a that’s a good, I love that it’s great isn’t it? Well, you know, we were talking before the break about what what atheists say on the subject of dating fossils. You were talking about this particular fossil that at age so many years and such a short period of time. And it just shows how how unfixed their ideas are on dating. They basically make it up as they go along. So often. It seems to me, our good friend Mike Ribble actually said about looking at scientific articles and saying you’ve got to spot the fuzzy words and this is something even a non scientists can do. And quite often you see an article where you’ll get the phrase, this has rewritten our whole knowledge about the evolution of whatever. As soon as you see that, you know that they’re basically making it up, they don’t know, they just got something new. It doesn’t fit. And so they’re basically trying to put some duct tape over the theory of evolution to patch it up. When you think about the truth does not change. So the fact that they keep changing their theory means that they haven’t had truth. I mean, in order for something to be proven, it has to be true. Is that correct? And you know what, 11 step further they’re gone is to deny that truth exists. That’s true, right? And that’s so they’ve defined truth as inoperable, unusable, unmanageable. It doesn’t exist. I love it when they say we can’t know the truth. And I say, do you know that or is that true? There are no absolutes. Are you absolutely sure? I love that. So what do Atheists say? I mean, you’ve done a lot of work with fossils. Uh, you have in Australia a place where you let people come and dig up fossils and have actually planted some of these, what you call living fossils there. Tell tell our audience if they didn’t catch the last show, which by the way, we went into this a little bit, but tell them a little bit about that. And then I want to ask you, we want to ask you some more questions. Okay, if you go to Creation research dot net and click on the middle column, Jurassic arc, there’s lots of pictures in there and it’s basically a dig site that sort of growed into a big project. You can now walk from adam to Australia in our Biblical plant gardens. You can follow the murals, you can get your own self guided tour. You can come and look at the fossil logjam we found there a flood, fossil logjam. In fact, you can join us on a, on a big dig next year if you like. We took a group last year all out to the outback of Australia following this one bed and it covers gazillion square miles. It’s just unbelievably huge. Japanese lake air. You can actually still see the same log bed. It’s incredible. So those are the sort of things we developed creation research dot net click on Jurassic park in the center column and get ready for some wonderful evidence of judgment as well as creation. Unbelievable. Okay. We were talking about before the program and by the way, you’re taking a trip, you’re taking a trip over the next 12,000. That’s gonna be exciting. You know? I think we should be very good at whatever the cost. I don’t care how much money we have money we spend, even checking a couple of cents, you will. That’s british. Okay, so before the break, we were discussing how fossils have aged very quickly. The reality of how do they actually date these things? Because I know that they came up with the ages of the layers back in the 18 hundreds. Radiocarbon dating is what we most of the time here. Oh well, you know, radiocarbon dating proves, But that wasn’t invented until what the fifties, you get 1947 you get to carbon 14, You get the 1950s, the finalization of the uranium rubidium. Remember, was there? Well, it did happen in the University of Edinburgh, not down in England where you are. But anyway, what you’ll find is you get two types of responses. One is what I call the Richard Dawkins response because I’ve debated him. You can see bits of it on YouTube and when you bring up a solid fact like, hang on, this fossil is not 300 million Zolder 200. Look how much it’s changed, right? And his first level of response is well, how dare you even demand public funds, you know, and have tax deductibility. And I think what’s that got to do with what we’re talking about? We’re talking science here and you end up with a personal attack. That’s the commonest sort of response. I mean, you people, how do you say this with peer review journals and you’re not, you know, and you think, come on, Richard talk stuff, right. Talk facts. So that’s the first level of response. But I’m not surprised they resort to that response because one of the things that we bring out on the one the DVD, you’re in Darwin on the rocks is how they got this aging system in the first place. And it’s due to a Scotsman who actually took up being english and graduated in law. His name is Charles Lyell and he sort of was Charles Darwin’s mentor. He’s a bigger problem than Darwin is. But Darwin with his disciple and because of the door that Lyell opened for the vast amount of time Darwin walked through, developed his theory of evolution. But then Lyell and Darwin tag teamed or team tag whatever you say over here, right. And Lionel started to use Darwin’s ideas to date the rocks. And a classic example, is that okay? You start in the auto vision rocks, the ones you and I, we’re filming in, right? And you find fossil snails, they’re easy to recognize they look like fossil snails. Right? And so you think, hey, the evidence is snails have produced their own kind complex science that it really is. Hard stuff. Right? Yes. This is I keep saying the only thing about common sense is that ain’t all that common. And then what Lionel did was say, well if you add up all the rock layers up to the top, There seems to be 12 variations in the snail group. So if we have the evolution of species, Hey Charles, how long does it take to get one snail evolving to another species in Darwin’s answer was 20 million years. And so 12 times 20 is 240. So the audio vision rocks before radioactive dating before any other thoughts like that automatically became 240 million years old by Fiat Declaration. That’s it. No evidence. Right. And you never get taught this at university because it would make it look so stupid because it is actually there’s no way to get around it. So I’m not surprised the atheists will launch into a personal attack because there’s no database. Once you get into the database, here’s what you find, it’s a logical construct that they never want you to find out what presuppositions is built on because the chief presupposition is again, Charles, Lyell, my aim is to remove science from moses, right? So if they go to creation research dot net, click on search, insert evidence search and then Lyell, they’ll get all these quotes and that’s what the motivation was. I’m going to get rid of moses out of the bible but you know how he did it, He never told anybody what he was doing. He never attacked the bible, never attacked the church, sent his money to the church every week but actually undermined it totally. And the name of his book, Charles Lyles book was principles of geology. This is just absolutely incredible stuff isn’t it? You know that lyle was trying to undermine moses. We need to talk about that later and we’ve also learned that you can recognize fossil snails because they look like snails more after this. Are you busy getting ready for the coming school year? Don’t forget to prepare for non christian worldviews in the classroom. These five books by dr husband in the award winning creation seminar series, Part four Lies in the textbooks now featuring Dr Hogan’s latest resource help. I’m being taught evolution one and two in these books, students will find a great way to dialogue with their teachers about evolution. The book entitled Are you being brainwashed, especially designed to help students quickly and effectively defend their faith from the attacks of evolution. Is um in public school classrooms. The gap theory debunks the unnecessary and misguided compromise that christians sometimes make in inventing a gap between genesis 11 and genesis 12, allowing for millions of years to be inserted and finally claws, jaws and dinosaurs with its emphasis on cryptozoology is included in this limited time offer to order this back to school package. Go to Creation store dot org. Welcome back to Creation today. We’re having a great time with paul, taylor and john McKay in the studio, john is all the way from Australia and has joined us to have some good times and teach about science and the bible. And I love where we’re going with this paul. You mentioned during the break, we were discussing how we really do need to get into the presuppositions where Lyle uh came up with these thoughts and why we needed to, why we need to expose what really happened there. Well, it’s really that I want you john to be able to expand on the thing that we just sort of ran out of time with before the break really. And I don’t want our viewers to miss this point. That Lyell who, who developed the ideas of long ages and millions of years that john was telling us. They did not come from radio metric dating. This was long before radio metric dating. It was basically sort of ideas going backwards and forwards between Charles. Lyell and Charles Darwin developing this idea of millions of years and giving this sort of divine fiat on their part as to what age something should be. But it’s very important that we know that there was a motivation behind what Lyell said and you mentioned this before the break, but I really want you to emphasize it again for our viewers. So they don’t miss it. What was his motivation? Okay, I’ll actually go back a few years if that’s all right. To give a historic context. You ever heard of Theophilus? I have. Okay. In the second century, Theophilus said the world was made about 5700 years ago plus a minus 200 right. It’s interesting that they actually had that concept, right? And of course he was basing his addition on the septum conversion, which was common amongst the christian in those days. And then he went on to say not the tens of thousands that plato and the others have stated plato pagan, right? So here we have the pagans versus the christians revealed authority versus man’s deductions. Now, the basis of the argument has not changed by the time you get to the french in the 17 hundreds increasing atheism, increasing rationalism. So you get comped djellaba femme right? And comp Della before, I can’t say that. Well, you got the wrong accent, Good day y’all and comfortable about farm, basically said the earth is a blob and it cooled down from a blob of molten iron. So he took a ball of iron and he heated it up and let it cool down and said, if this little ball takes that many weeks to cool down, then this big ball takes at least 70,000 years now, his presuppositions, that’s where he came out that whatever is happening in the present has always happened now even though he never publicly attacked the biblical position at all, the bible position as stated in moses genesis extra biblical numbers, Deuteronomy is that once there wasn’t a world then there then there was the President is not the key to the past. That world was very good. Now it isn’t, the president is not the key to the past once it didn’t rain now it does the president you can see that the difference in approach okay now did often was french. So if the french say it, the english rejected you wouldn’t know that right? But the Scots, if their english rejected the Scots will grab it. Right because we’ve been fighting them for a long time. And anyway so in Edinburgh University they start to promote this Present is the key to the past concept has not got fancy words yet. But Charles Lyell grew up just outside of Edinburgh, he comes to England writes a book in 1831. What’s happening in society well over there in France where they’d run with the biblical catastrophic model. You know, God made the world good. Then it’s destroyed by noah’s flood E. G. The present is not the key to the path. Then they started to say well Q. V. A. There’s at least four major catastrophes based on the rocks extinct creatures extinct creatures extinct creatures, they’re looking at the rock layers as their authority. Right? And then his disciple said, No, there’s 27 different layers under France under Paris alone. And so by the time you get to the end of that, that cycle, there’s so many catastrophes, it just looks plain stupid, right? So loyal takes advantage and says get rid of catastrophe is um replace it with well what became known as uniform a Terrian is um and basically use only what you can see in the present and extrapolate backwards. Now that just looks like, okay, we’re being scientists, we just look at the present. If it wasn’t for the fact that after he died, his sister had collected his letters and in one of those letters is my aim is to free science from moses. Now, if you’re wondering why it had such an impact on the church in England or the church in America, it was Jesus who said, if you don’t believe moses, john chapter five, then you won’t believe me. Now you’re looking at this truth that jesus gave us being fulfilled because you’re looking at an America where most of the republicans, most of the democrats no longer believe moses. So don’t be surprised, they don’t believe jesus, the two go hand in hand and jesus said, that’s the way it works, wow, that’s sort of the motivation. The long term consequence, these guys belong to a group that said the monarchy in England is based on the concept of moses being right God is the creator, he has the right to appoint kings, you know, the divine rule of kings? You want to get rid of the monarchy, You have to get rid of the creator. And so you can see England’s monarchy has just faded away and they really don’t know why. But the reality is the whole foundation of every structure in society that’s organized actually comes based on the God who is the organizer, get rid of that organization and no longer in God we trust. So the society, whether it’s american democracy or british monarchy has no basis for truth, It will collapse. And that’s exactly where we see ourselves today. I mean, that that hits the nail on the head for why is America in the state that it’s in, Why is society in the state that it’s in? It’s because we’ve rejected a foundation. And when you reject that, you’re left with chaos, that’s exactly where anything goes. And it’s really hard to share the gospel because the people you’re talking to live on another planet, they think their brains got there by accident. So don’t be surprised. They can’t think through the logical arguments which whether christians know it or not, our presupposition is God is a God of order. My thoughts have to be ordered and ordered thoughts from A to Z prove something, but a non christian thoughts or whatever right? They don’t have to be large, they can even be illogical, right? What’s the problem, right? And so you will find that if you want to share the gospel, you have to begin in the beginning, God made the world, he made it good. That’s why sin is so bad. What sin? Well, God has the right to tell us what’s wrong and he has the right to tell us what to repent of. Ah He has the right to judge sin. And if he judges sin, you and me and everybody else from President Obama downwards are in trouble. But good news. This God came down as a man and he chose to die on the cross. In your place in mind, you can get off the hook, That’s good news, isn’t it? It’s marvelous news and we know it should be preached. We’re just, I had a mini sermon there, where can they get more? I’m looking at, we carry some of your dvds at Creation story dot org. They can go to our office in Tennessee, which is on our creation research dot net website and then if they have questions for you, of course, ask john McKay dot com dot com. So wow, wow, we could do about 10 of these, couldn’t we have kids and I love it. This gets down to right where it matters with worldviews with what’s gonna happen when we die. All of that comes right into this. Well, that is our show for today. I want to thank john for joining us. If you have questions, feel free to send them into questions at Creation today dot org. You can also join us on twitter at Creation today and facebook facebook dot com slash creation today. We’ll tune in every episode remember to see if we’ve answered your question. And of course, these programs are being archived online at Creation today dot org. This has been a production of God. Quest Ministers. Thank you guys very much for joining us. Mhm

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