The Process of Gods Creation
In this program you’ll be challenged by both the biblical and scientific information in fresh days that are intended to draw you closer to God and develop a great love for Him. You’ll see that God’s creation was an act of great love, power, and personal involvement that shows His great care for our lives today.
today on the johnny Karberg show we will provide answers for those who have abandoned their christian faith because of science. Somewhere along the line, you were persuaded that the biblical account of creation cannot be reconciled with modern science today. But in this series we will argue that the latest scientific evidence will actually lead you to believe in God. Further. He will answer the question Should we expect to find agreement between the record of nature and the record of scripture? Sure, we should. Because it’s the same author. I mean, you look at a building that was done by an architect and another building by the same architect. You say it’s a frank Lloyd wright building. You look at the universe, It was built by God. It’s got all over it, not made in Usa but made by the living God. And you look at the scriptures that too came from God. Now the author is the same interpreters work on both. The interpreters may disagree, but not the evidence, not the raw data itself. The raw data itself comes from the same Lord. Otherwise we throw away the doctrine of creation. Otherwise we throw away the inspiration. The full inerrant word of God. We can’t throw away either. They both come from the living God. My guest today is astronomer Dr Hugh ross who received his PhD in astronomy from the University of Toronto and did postdoctoral research at caltech on quasars. He’s the author of many books, including his latest navigating genesis. We will also hear from Hebrew scholar. Dr walter Kaiser, a man thought by many to be one of the world’s most knowledgeable authorities on the old testament in Hebrew language Join us and hear how the latest scientific evidence is. In agreement with the biblical account of creation in Genesis one and 2 on this special edition of the johnny Karberg show. Right, yeah, welcome to report. We got a great one for you today. My guest is astronomer and astrophysicist, dr Hugh ross. And in the past few weeks we’ve been showing you clips from his documentary movie called Journey toward Creation about how God has created and fine tuned the universe and the world that we live in and it’s been fantastic. And today we’re looking at The information that God has given to us in the Bible in Genesis chapter one Genesis chapter two. And what I want to start with is the very first statement that God gives to us in the bible. He says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. These 10 simple words are chuck full of scientific information. I want to go to a clip with one of our dear friends, Hebrew scholar dr walter Kaiser is very well known and we asked him to tell us what do these words mean when you translate it literally from Hebrew and this is what he said. Listen, thanks john it really does talk about an absolute beginning and the text is in the beginning it’s very very crucial that all who believe in the inerrancy of scripture, understand this is where it all started and the rest of the phrase heavens and earth really is the biblical word for universe. It’s what we call hand, diet, ease hand one idea through this too. So we have one idea through two words universe expressed by heaven and earth. So the whole shebang was done in the beginning and who did it? God God created the word Bara issues 45 times exclusively with God is the subject. No other. There are other words for make or form or things like that, but never does human use the word Bara and never doesn’t have any a material used as agency along with it. So uh I think our commitment would be to a absolute beginning and that it was initiated by God and that it covers the whole universe. And then it’s gonna go on verse two to talk about the earth. But like genesis does always takes the big subject first the universe now, meanwhile, back down on Earth and now we’re gonna focus on the topic of earth. So uh no matter how far you go back, it’s in the beginning and there’s where christians ought to put their foot down and say yep in the beginning and that’s the biblical date Now Hugh after listening to what Dr. Walter Kyser said about Genesis 1, 1 tell me why astronomy supports this and there is so much more that could be said walt Kaiser was talking about was what we call the doctrine of creation ex ni hilo, how God created the universe out of nothing instant where all matter energy, space and time came into existence. And astronomers have discovered that that indeed is a correct understanding of the universe. That the theory of general relativity, the spacetime theorems, observations all point back to a beginning and finite time beginning. That includes not only the beginning of matter and energy, but space and time itself. Because of the spacetime theorems, Even atheist physicists are now conceding that a deiced IQ interpretation of reality cannot be avoided, that God exists and he brought it into existence. Now go back. You were a non christian when you first started looking at this information and at the time you started looking at this information an absolute beginning of the universe was not the focus of science. They were fighting that point of view. They were dragged, kicking and screaming over the line. You’ve given us some of the evidence. But tell us about that feeling. Why were they kicking and screaming to be brought over this line? Well, two things they recognize that if the universe does have this space time, beginning, then that means that there must be an agent beyond space and time that created everything that obviously points to the god of the bible, which some did not really prefer. The other thing that disturbed them is that the time scale was way too short, had made the universe only billions of years old. And whatever illusions biologists had. The astronomers knew if it’s only billions of years, then there cannot be a naturalistic interpretation for the origin and history of life. Yeah. I still love your illustration that stars have the potential to burn for 80 billion years. But the scientists are saying the universe is only 13.8 billion years old. So they’re fighting it all along the line, aren’t they? We don’t see any completely burnt out stars stars. We do see stars that have run out of fuel, but they’re still cooling down. The fact that we can see if they’re still cooling, tells us that the universe is relatively young. Now we get to Genesis one. When you started looking at how the bible uses The word day in Chapter one tell us the process you went through. Well, I was curious as to what these days already meant. The first time I picked up the bible and it uses the sprays. Evening was morning was day three day four. And you know that grammatical structure and treat me, why is it putting it in that language? And when I came to the seventh day, I realized there is no evening and morning. I mean the seventh day is described in chapter two. So it’s important to realize that the story really ends at chapter two, verse four. So, and when I realized there’s no evening and morning for the seventh day and that that’s when God rests. I said, that explains why we don’t see significant speciation of life in the human era. God stops creating when he creates Adam and Eve and therefore God’s at rest. Today we see the natural process, but in the past we see abundant evidence for supernatural intervention. When we were doing some of the programs with Dr Kaiser and yourself in the debate and other programs. Some are pastors that are watching, wrote him. I want you to listen. I want to start with a question from a pastor, because we’re talking about the literal interpretation of genesis one and two, and what does the word day mean? And in reading some of your books, dr Kaiser, he says, I’m saddened that Dr Kaiser has opted to follow the kind of uh line of reasoning that weakens the faith in the scriptures. Uh, there’s this reinterpretation uh and weakening in the scripture for what reason? Seemingly to make the bible and evolutionary science find some common ground. That is a shame now, how do you respond to these folks when you said over and over again, you’re trying to give a literal interpretation of the text apart from science. Say it again and talk to this pastor’s heart. Well, thank you john and thank you, Pastor for your concern for me. First of all, but I’ve got to tell you the bible made me do it. Uh I am only trying to understand what the text is. I have no agenda. Uh, I only want to please my Lord. And I want to hear what he said through these individuals. You have no idea how much energy I have put into the whole idea of the author’s intentionality. That that’s what is central. So one uses the word day. I must be very careful and say, all right. Does the author give me some internal clues? He has the first Davies on this. And so yes. And 15 he said it means daylight as opposed tonight. Okay, I’ve got that 11 14. He said, God put the greater light and the lesser light for seasons and for years and for days, all that must be the kind we have now. The 24 hour. Then he summarizes the whole thing and he says, when he did all of this or in the day that he did all of this, which are six preceding ones, that God finally concluded and arrested. So no reinterpretation. I think that’s anathema. I think that is a pity and I wouldn’t want to reinterpret or even take my interpretation and say, well, the day is a day. I know what days are and say my idea of day must prevail not. It’s the writer’s view of the word day. That must prevail. You said. Another spot. That moses used the phrase phrase, a day is as 1000 years with the Lord. Okay. Some folks will say but he didn’t say a day is 1000 years. And that’s correct. It really doesn’t say it’s equivalent. But my point is that in the psalter in the book of psalms, that the headings for half of the 150 psalms Is as early as the original text appears in the Greek translation, 3rd Century BC. Already they couldn’t translate some of the words, We still can’t translate some of the words because they are so early. And Psalm 90 is the only psalm attributed to moses and there his use of the word day is he says it’s why it’s like and onto the same thing as a millennium. Uh he doesn’t say it is a millennium. Matter of fact it could be longer. But my only point is look, listen up, this is the writer who stood in the counsel of God give him a fair shake. So no reinterpretation. Dear pastor, I want to hang with the text and what it’s saying for. That’s my only clue as to what God said. Now here, I want to pick up on what dr Kaiser was saying and I want you folks to stick with me for a little bit here In a previous program. We said that the Englishman’s hebrew concordance. If you look it up. There are 58 different ways that the Bible uses or interprets the word Yam. Why are there so many different meetings To this one word. It has to do with the number of words that are available in the hebrew language. For example, the hebrew language only consists of about 8700 words. Where our English vocabulary we have over 500,000 words to express what we mean. Therefore some of the hebrew words do double duty, triple duty and the context determines how they are to be interpreted And like I said, The concordance gives you 58 different ways to use. Yeah. So let me give you just four quick examples. Eight times in the old testament, Yom is translated as age for example genesis 18 11. It says Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in yeah, in age meaning old age or genesis 47 28 where it refers to the whole age of Jacob, where Yom refers to Jacob’s entire lifetime or four times. The bible translates the word Yom or uses the word Yom as always. For example, Deuteronomy 5 29 where God says oh that they had such a heart in them that they would fear me and keep the commandments of the Lord Always. That word always is yum. It’s a day that can be interpreted as a lifetime. There in Deuteronomy 5 20-9 third example, Yama is also translated as seasons. Joshua 24 7 says you dwelt in the wilderness along Yam a long season where it represents a multi month period and 19 times. Yama is translated ever. For example, psalm 23 6 is a great example. It says surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for Yam forever. It represents eternity. Now Hugh. Those are four examples of how Yam is used and gives a different meaning to the word in our english text and when we come to genesis chapter one, you’ve got three or four meetings right there. In the text where moses goes back and forth, explain what that is Well In the beginning, Planet Earth, it’s dark on the surface of the waters Day one, God transforms the atmosphere from opaque to translucent so light can come through And what does it say In verse five, God called the light day that refers to the time from sunrise to sunset. And then in the fourth creation day, God transforms the atmosphere from translucent, permanently overcast to where now it’s at least on occasion transparent and for the first time, creatures on the surface of the earth can see the sun, moon and stars. And there are talks about how God used those sun, moon and stars for the benefit of the animals to mark seasons days and years day. There is referring to the 24 hour day and then in genesis 24, it uses the word Yom translated day to refer to the entire creation week. So that’s an example where obviously that word must refer to a long period of time. And what while Kaiser was saying was it’s not enough to take the bible literally. We have to take it literally and consistently which of the literal definitions allows us to read the entire bible without contradiction. And that’s why he and I take the point of view that the days in genesis one must be long periods of time. It’s the only way to avoid the bible contradicting itself. Another question that comes right up here is what you mentioned the use of there was evening and there was morning one day and I asked dr Kaiser to tell us how that’s translated from the hebrew. And I want you to listen people say whenever yama is used with evening and morning it can mean only an ordinary day, never a long period of time. Now what do you think? Well evening at morning, it to start on the first one with evening is sort of interesting. Where did that first evening come from? Must come from a day that wasn’t already. So there’s something wrong with it the way you started and then evening and morning doesn’t make up a whole 24 hours. And anyway we have three of these evenings and mornings. Day one day, two day three before on the fourth day, God makes days. So we’re in trouble here and then the seventh day is lasting all the way to the present. Hebrews four says that God rested from his creative work and he calls it in hebrews for a sabbath, christmas a sabbath, That’s the greek word, it’s our word sabbath when God stopped and he put a a conclusion, another greek word. There is kata palaces, he said stop. And there are three times in the biblical text, God stopped creation marking between creation and providence. God stopped on the cross and said it is finished, it is done. And then the book of revelation, one more time, God says it is done and it marks the end between his work and providence and his work and history and all of eternity, three great stop days and uh this one is still going on. So let us enter says hebrews four into this rest. Uh and the interesting thing is there is no citation of evening and morning with the seventh day also. Uh so on at least four or five grounds I find to say that this is really an argument for a 24 hour day to be weak, but a lot of people don’t know when I was in graduate school, I sat under dr walter Kaiser’s teaching and the way he sounds in that clip is just the way he used to teach, half of it was funny and half of it was just pure intellect, it was fantastic and his grasp of the bible was just so much fun and we came to this thing of the evening and morning, I wanted him to say that, but you two, even as a non christian when you came and started reading the bible, it actually opened up the door for believing this was true, not that this was something that was false. How did you pick up on that? Well, I noticed that the words for Earth and heaven and day Obviously had multiple literal definitions just because of the different context in Genesis one. So I wasn’t surprised that may also be true for evening and morning and I was puzzled what does this actually mean? But given the fact that the days are set up, Evening was morning was day 23 and four. Is that at a minimum, it means that the word is referring to the start point for the day and the endpoint for the day. And then I noticed the 7th day didn’t have that phrase. I was also piqued by the fact that what you see in the wording evening was morning was why two verbs why to subject compliments. Is this cueing us to the fact that maybe there’s something special or unique about the day is being described here and for that reason recognized alright, the lack of an evening and morning for the seventh day means we’re still in the seventh day, as you heard Kaiser say, there are many passages in the bible tell us or still in the seventh day, God will create again in the future when he makes a new creation. But right now he’s ceasing from his work of creation activity. And that thrilled me as a scientist because now we got a way to test for God because God is telling us he is not at work right now in terms of creation. So in science we’re gonna see natural process in the human era. But before the human era, we would expect to find many examples of supernatural intervention. As a physicist and astronomers, we see a dramatic difference between what happens before humanity and what happens after humanity and that to me was powerful evidence that the god of the bible indeed, is the creator of everything, folks. I hope that you have enjoyed listening to this information and we’re going to continue next week. You don’t want to miss next week. Why? Because we’re going to look at what happened on the 6th day when God created Adam & Eve, There’s at least 8-10 events that are depicted in that sixth day. And we’re gonna look at each one of them. And then we’re gonna ask you could all of those events have happened within 24 hours of time? Or does it have to be talking about a longer period of time? And also, we’re gonna look at the fourth day, was that the day that God actually brought into existence, the sun, the moon and the stars? Or is the bible saying something different, That he’s referring back to the first verse that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth? We’re gonna look at all of that and what the linguists tell us and I think that you will enjoy this information and I hope that you’ll join us then stay tuned for scenes from next week’s program. If you would like to have all of the information in today’s series called Step by step through. Well, thanks for being with me today. If you enjoyed today’s program and would like to watch it again or wish to view some of our other programs and topics, just go to our free johnny Karberg show app or you may watch our programs at our website at J A show dot org. Today’s series is entitled Step by Step through Creation. And in these four programs, astronomer and astrophysicist, dr Hugh ross and I will take you verse by verse through genesis one and two and show you how the biblical account of creation can be reconciled with scientific evidence today. Then we also taped a second series with Dr Ross entitled science discovers the universe had a beginning. In this series, he answers the questions what scientific evidence has led astronomers to conclude the universe had a beginning, just as the bible sounds, what evidence shows that God meticulously created and designed the universe so that human life can live on earth? How is God positioned jupiter Saturn and Neptune to protect the earth. and how did God exquisitely designed the sun, the moon and stars for man’s benefit. Again, you may watch any of these episodes free on our john Achterberg show app or you may download each episode for only $5 an episode on our website at J A show dot org folks. Our goal is to help encourage and strengthen you and your walk with the Lord and possibly God is speaking to you today and you’d like to know how to become a christian or you would like to pray and invite jesus christ to be your personal savior. If so, just go to our website right now, click on, pray to accept jesus as your savior. Goodbye God bless you, I’ll see you next week. Yeah, Naturalistic evolution in theistic evolution would say that the universe is billions of years old. Life has been here on Earth for 3.8 billion years. It started off very simple and became progressively more and more complex. The point of view that we’re presenting is that God supernaturally intervenes to create the different kinds of life as you see throughout those 3.8 billion years, they don’t get there by natural process. So the origin of life and all the different species of follow our by God’s hand. Yeah, right now in a lot of our seminaries, sad to say as well as in a lot of our churches, there is a push a movement toward a theistic View of creation in Genesis one. We may do some programs on that up ahead. But I’m saying, What’s the attraction and why is it there afraid of really tackling and grappling with the evidence? Well, the problem is the fossil record shows these mass extinction events followed by mass speciation events. And christians. Look at that, say if we say that God’s behind all that, it looks like a god that’s creating by trial and error or a god that doesn’t know what he’s doing. It’s a bumbling god, but they’re failing to take into account the astrophysics That we’re looking at life over 3.8 billion years where the earth is changing, the sun is changing, the moon is changing and so different life can thrive at one time, but not at a different time. And God actually progressively removes life on the planet and replaces it with new life forms in order to perfectly compensate for all the changes that are taking place in the solar system. Why? So that we human beings can have the benefit. I’ve got loading up the earth over that long period of time with the bio deposits, we need to launch and sustain global civilization. So it’s not a bumbling god. It’s a God that knows in advance exactly what life needs to be on the earth at what time and what abundance and what diversity. So it can perfectly compensate for the changing physics of the solar system. Now, possibly God is speaking to you today. If you would like to have someone pray with you or you have a question you would like to ask. There’s a phone number on your screen right now that you may call, Call that number. Thank you for joining me today. I hope that you’ll join me again at the same time next week to learn how to start a relationship with jesus christ, go to our website at J A. Show dot org and click on prey to accept jesus christ as your savior.