Paul and Eric interview special guest John Mackay, International Director of Creation Research.
the following program is made possible by the friends and partners of God quest ministries from the C. T. N. Studio in Pensacola florida. This is creation today where we believe the bible is literally true and scientifically accurate from the very beginning and were not ashamed to say. So I’m one of your hosts eric Open and I’m paul taylor, We’re here every episode to answer your questions on science and the bible and cover what’s going on in creation today and today we’re joined by our special guest, the International Director of Creation Research, john McKay, Good day, Good day, Good day. And hi, it’s john McKay from Down under. We’re looking forward to a great show answering your questions. You guys enjoy this show with john today, Welcome to the show. This is the, this is Creation today and we’re glad to be here with you. And as I said before, we’ve got our special guest here today, john McKay, so it’s great to have you with us. Thank you for joining us, john good to be here in florida and your warm, wet climate. We’ve had a lot of rain recently as we’ve been recording this show a few days before recording this show, but remember this is your show and if you’ve got questions to ask us and please send them in correct questions at creation today dot org or you could twitter us at creation today and you can get onto facebook facebook dot com forward slash creation today. Well john we were just absolutely thrilled to have you with us and you’ve been here on a tour of the United States, haven’t you? Over the last few yes paul, we did a series of Dvds called Darwin on the Rocks and we’re up to the last part. So I flew into Washington state Maybe four and a bit weeks ago and there was still snow on the mountain. So for an aussie, that was a real thrill after our beautifully warm climate there and interviewed a professor bio synthetic, a guy that stitches chemicals together on the issues of the origin of life. And then we dealt with caves and stalactites and whether you need time or an intelligent process. So it’s been a great trip and I finished up down here and just about head back to Oz. Excellent. So you’ve been able to pick up lots and lots of evidence, lots and lots of things to film for documentary because you’ve been, you’ve been filming particularly the third of a series, third DVD fourth part really of a series of talks you’ve been doing called Darwin on the Rocks, is that right? That’s correct, paul, you’re actually in the first part, aren’t you? I am. I wasn’t going to mention that, but you are. And so you can see paul, if you think he’s good looking in that you can see as well. And the whole series was brought out because of Darwin’s 150th anniversary or 2\/100 anniversary just to show that? Well, paul your english, I believe so, yes. And english is a wonderful language. So we called it Darwin on the rocks because well it’s got several connotations. It really is about the things that Darwin says on the rocks and how number one they show that he didn’t tell you the truth. And of course in english on the rocks relates to shipwreck. So the facts actually, Shipwreck, Darwin’s theory. And you did a great job And we filmed the evidence all around the UsA and Canada and Australia and I believe you’ve even seen it. Eric I have. Don’t tell me you guys use this silly accent on the show. Oh my goodness, you guys are just using that to sound smart. All I got is the american accent. I got nothing, man, I love it. Yeah, great show. I’m really enjoying what you guys come up with, showing the evidence, showing the proof. I mean it’s you got a ton of stuff in there, there’s no doubt about it because we went through Tennessee and over there a few years ago I found some rocks with seashells and land plants all mixed together. And I then I thought to myself, well this is the Pennsylvanian rocks and of course pennsylvania is a place, not a millions of years of evolution. I thought well, I’ve seen these rocks before and it was over in Wales many years ago. So what we did was follow this rock layer all around planet Earth and I got our guide in England to take me back to Wales To where we thought that quarry might be. And I said that layer should be here somewhere. And sure enough, halfway up there was the layer with shells and plants in. So this layer actually covers more than 180Â° of the Earth’s service of anybody’s looking for evidence, not only of the creation of the shelves and the plants, but the evidence of God’s judgment at Noah’s flood. You can actually see it, folks. It’s really out there and it’s rock solid. And that really is the point is this shows anybody with half a brain that there really was a worldwide flood. There was a judgment. So why is it that people don’t believe this? Well, I hate to say this, but in all of my experience in dealing with atheists, agnostics and skeptics, it usually turns out to be that they don’t want to know. I say that because I was asked to give a lecture to the Geological Association in Oxford and that’s not Oxford Mississippi, it’s the real one. Right? And at the end of the program, that was one professor who really, I mean, he really got up my goat. I don’t have that phrase over here, we got goats over here. But but anyway, he was so object objectionable to anything. I said, but afterwards he said, would you have a drink in the bar with me. So while he’s sipping his whiskey and soda, I’m drinking my coke and ice and whatever. And he said, you’re a very brave man. I said, why? He said, well, I’ve come across all of that evidence of the different races knowing tribal legends about a flood. But I said, well, why didn’t you say so? And the fact is he knew it, that he would publicly deny it. And so it’s one more evidence that your bible is true because peter warns us in the last days in second. Peter in chapter three, that in the last days men will deliberately deny and that’s my experience. They don’t want to know, even though they do know, wow, I’ve been, I’ve been fascinated with with your website and you’ve got a new website where you’re answering questions a whole lot and getting overrun with them, Right. That’s really the truth. Yes. So, we originally set up Creation Research dot net, that’s our main website still. So you can read all about these dvds and get free previews there and free is a good price is always good. And then you can go to our question and answer website which is asked john Mackay dot com, You got that eric asked john Mackay dot com, don’t you love the way he says that, john McCain, not McKay McKay is irish and that’s the wrong side of the family, Okay, we won’t bring that, you know, when we were filming the particular excerpt in the quarry in Wales, which we did sort of as I remember with drizzle falling down more or less continuously because that’s what it’s like there. And we were doing two projects at the same time because I was also filming a documentary on the life of Charles Darwin. And one of the things that, well, the reason why I was interviewing you there was because you were able to talk about this huge rock face and use it as a visual aid there about how secular geologists have changed the definitions of the rock layers. And you were talking about how those rock layers were originally defined and where the terms, there’s no doubt about it because we were in an auto vision rock layer and the order VC people just lived on the border of England and Wales. And so when they first studied these, they named them after the local whatever it was. Right. So Auto VC people, they’re extinct, killed off right those days. They named the rocks in honor of them because they included a few killed off extinct fossils. Don’t you get the joke? Maybe you don’t. But anyway, but it had nothing to do with millions of years. Nothing to do with creation. And had nothing to do with evolution. And basically, the geologists have forgotten that deliberately and now brought in the millions of years and evolution and everybody thinks it’s the fact, don’t they paul? Yeah, they’re absolutely convinced that it’s a fact. And uh, and these things you were able to show, you know where it was and where the long ages came from, that people basically just looked at a certain length depth of rock and said that so many million years and, and so and so all these dates and so on were developed long before anyone had come up with any radio metric dating. It was there. And you know, that layer we’re in, you can actually see it in the bottom of Nashville. Yes. And it’s still got exactly the same fossils in it. So, again, these are unbelievably huge deposits worldwide, worldwide deposits, basically. Yes, that’s what they are. Which tells us that Noah’s flood probably was not a local flood. It really was a worldwide flood, like the bible says. And, and this is something that paul and I discussed all the time on the show with all that evidence. What’s the best evidence that the flood occurred? The bible? It really does come down to the bible, but not only do we have God’s word, he’s given us all this material evidence as well, which turns out really good. So, I love the fact that we can study and see the absolute truth of God’s word in nature in what we observe today. Hey, I want to talk to you in just a minute about what you’re doing in Australia because you’ve got some really cool things going over there on over there in Australia and I think we ought to take a trip over there sometime and see it ourselves. Don’t you think we’ll find out about that in just a second. It’s a good thing. Mhm. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Welcome back to Creation Today where we’re answering your questions on creation evolution, science and the bible covering what’s going on in creation and why it matters to you. I’m joined by a friend, john McKay and of course paul taylor are other host here, my friend as well. Yeah, you can be my friend too. And we’re having a great discussion about the work that john is doing in Australia before we continue talking about that. I want to remind you that we’ve got our current magazine out. If you haven’t seen that, you can go to Creation today dot org forward slash current, that’s Creation today dot org forward slash current and lots of great articles, including the genesis series project that we’re working on that is going to cover all kinds of it’s just going to be a fascinating project covering genesis Chapter one through three, avatar style without the blue aliens. Without the blue aliens of course. So, no blue aliens, but it’s gonna be incredible. Also want to mention that you can get john McKay’s dvds and you are on these with that awesome accent. So they sound super smart, intelligent along with a lot of other guests on these, this particular one, Darwin’s evolution, You guys are in Australia, is that correct? Very unnatural selection. And basically we looked at all the Aussie evidence, you know, those fascinating marsupials we have and the fact that many of them are giants and the evidence really shows good to bad to worse to Pensacola. Sorry, but it’s a degeneration from perfection rather than evolution from nothing to magnificent. Right? So the real history is we’re devolving. Right? And so that’s what we did film that mostly in Australia and then looked at the same evidence all around the globe and it’s there, Darwin’s evolution is an absolutely unnatural use of a very interesting phenomenon called natural selection. Well, if they can get where where can they get this? And then go to creation research dot net and click on our web shop and they can also then hunt down through the USa and order it here. Excellent. And I know we’re hearing some of your DVds as well. We’ll be carrying more I hope so. We’re gonna paul looks like we need to get another one. And more great evidence, more great information for you as we battle. Because what we find is all over the world. It’s not just in America that this creation versus evolution war or battle is taking place. It’s happening around the world there’s no doubt about it. It really is happening around the world. Like even just last night’s report on the BBC shutting down opposition to the global warming position and global warming of course is based on the concept that man is in charge and God isn’t. And that’s based on the concept that we got here naturally rather than by creation side. Again, it goes back to the creation evolution issue. It really is the route that it really is. There’s no doubt about it. All right. Tell us about I know paul you’re familiar with some of the things that john is doing in Australia and yeah, one of the things that you’ve you’ve done of course is you you’ve planted a lot of what what you term living fossils. And there’s a number of very interesting living fossils especially might want to tell us a little bit about what you mean by living fossils. And also one in particular that always interests me and I keep getting the pronunciation wrong or pronunciation wrong. The Wollemi pine accent, right? Pine, copper, that’s true blue. Maybe planting these. It sounds like you guys are like planting. Like what do you mean? Like planting evidence? Yes, I guess it really is. You see Charles Darwin at least was objective enough to realize that the fossils quote unquote were no help to his theory. They were the weakest part read his chapter on geology where he basically told us most assuredly they do not show vast changes. You know, simple, slow changes over millions of years. And he came up with a concept called living fossil living as in you and me right as in rose bushes as in wollemi pine. You got that. And living fossil fossil fos s means whole I’ll refers to what’s in it. So when you dig up stuff out of the rocks you can find fossil wool um eyes and they look pretty much the same as the living ones. We wrench in the Wollemi because it’s the latest and most spectacular one. They thought it had been extinct for over 100 million years. And then they found a small grove of them growing sort of northwest of Sydney. And so it’s become famous worldwide and what’s important about it is, well, I remember watching you remember David Attenborough, remember David and he planted one in Kew gardens, which is basically the most prestigious scientific gardens on the planet. And David Attenborough is an atheist evolutionist. Sir David. Sorry, Sorry. Sorry. Yes, Sir. David Attenborough and he planted a wollemi pine in the gardens there and basically said, isn’t evolution marvelous? This plant has remained unchanged for hundreds of meters and you thought lift up your foot, David and shoot a hole through it because you better get it out of your mouth before you do it. You’re in trouble here. Right. In other words, the evidence, despite the way they put an evolutionary twist on it, the living fossils shows they have produced after their own kind. And so paul that’s why we’ve taken Jurassic arc are big outdoor project where about 15 years ago or so a young man who owned the property was putting in a new dam, a big pond out there, I think you call him over here. That’s right, yes. And anyway found bits of what he thought was hardwood, turned out it was fossil wood. And so we said can we dig, so we dug and we found lots of trees and then I said can we dig some more? So we got tractors and bulldozers in and where we’ve excavated a living fossil fossil forest. And beside it, we thought, well if we plant the living plants, the kids can see that since this so called Jurassic era, which includes the wool on my right, we planted wollemi pines, tree ferns, all the fossils you can find in this zone. And the kids can go from here and say it hasn’t changed, hasn’t changed a bit, hasn’t changed a bit. And of course one of the things that fascinates me about the Wollemi pine is that by evolutionary dating methods, they said it’s about 100 million years ago that puts it into the age of the dinosaurs. And one evolutionist has said that basically finding it was like finding a real live dinosaur. He basically did in the point you can make folks out of any of these millions of years is if you will um I pine hasn’t changed in 100 million years, it may as well give up trying to evolve. It’s not doing it very good. And so you have to ask another question, what’s stopping it evolving? And the reality is the biologist who gets into the D. N. A. Now knows why they don’t evolve. Your DNA is highly evolved already and it it does, it’s got everything it needs to stop with that nonsense because what we’ve really discovered is they have readers to match what they should be the D. N. A. If it gets altered, there’s actually little repairs to switch it back to what it should be. So they’re designed to produce their own kind to remind us that God’s nature is stamped in the creation and he never changes. That is fascinating. What a great point to make. Their God never changes. His word never changes. And that is really the foundation that we go back to all the time is the unchanging authoritative word of God. And so folks, you can see this on creation research dot nick, scroll down the middle column hit Jurassic arc. And you just did it before. I did, yeah, I’m on your side right now. We’ve got lots of pictures, we’ll show you some of those and you guys make sure and go check out his website. Obviously if they want to take a trip over there, you you actually let them go dig that and we’re organizing a trip I think from here. Next july over august that’s in 2000 and 12. So next year get ready to next year, get ready to go on a trip to Australia. If you can afford it and they can do all of that. You’re going to take care of airline and everything for $200 deposit, deposit, $200 deposit. Oh man, what a trip. And paul. I think maybe we ought to get in on that. What do you think? I think it would be absolutely superb to get in on that because that would be a marvelous education as to what you’re actually getting your hands literally dirty in the in the in the whole business about the fossils and so on. Well, we’re gonna talk a lot more about this and we’re gonna do so after this break, are you busy getting ready for the coming school year? Don’t forget to prepare for non christian worldviews in the classroom. These five books by Dr husband in the award winning creation seminar series, Part four lies in the textbooks now featuring dr Hogan’s latest resource help. I’m being taught Evolution one and two. In these books, students will find a great way to dialogue with their teachers about evolution. The book entitled Are you being brainwashed, especially designed to help students quickly and effectively defend their faith from the attacks of evolution is um in public school classrooms. The gap theory debunks the unnecessary and misguided compromise that christians sometimes make in inventing a gap between genesis 11 and genesis 12 allowing for millions of years to be inserted and finally claws, jaws and dinosaurs with its emphasis on cryptozoology is included in this limited time offer to order this back to school package. Go to Creation store dot org. Welcome back. You’re watching Creation today with me paul taylor and with eric Hoven. And this episode we’ve got our special guest, john McKay, who is the International Director of Creation Research and you can get his information. Go to the website Creation research dot net. Of course, if you want to ask him some questions, we’ve been asking lots of questions today. If you’ve got more questions that you want to ask, john, then go to ask john Mackay dot com, ask john Mackay dot com and you can find some of his dvds either on his website or you can go to our creation store dot org as well where you’ll be able to get lots of other interesting information on Creation as well. Well, we’ve been talking, we’ve been asking you a lot of questions, john and you’ve got a DVD out called the big question debate and the whole point about that date debate. It was held in 2000 and five at Liverpool Cathedral and if anyone knows the UK at all, you know, the Liverpool Cathedral is an extremely large building actually built in the 20th century, but in mock Gothic style, huge building and the debate there, you are holding a debate with the reverend dr john Polkinghorne who seems to be on the facebook multitalented, he’s a knight of the realm, The queen’s dubbed him with a sword. So he’s legally called sir. He’s a doctor PhD in astrophysics, he’s a reverend, he’s actually an ordained minister in the church of England. And you have the surgery. And the debate was is evolution compatible with the christian faith? And the whole point is he was arguing yes Christianity is compatible with evolution is compatible with the christian faith. That’s what he believes and you have the effrontery to say no it’s not compatible. Tell us a little bit about what happened then in that case. Tell me why you’re smarter than him first because apparently this guy’s got it all figured out. Yes he’s got a sort of more degrees after his name than a hot day. But basically you don’t need smarts in many of these things, what you need is wisdom, right? And I would encourage the listeners out there to realize that I. Q. Is a basic entity. It doesn’t make you wise. I think you can make you smart, a university can give you a PhD but God gives wisdom and God alone gives wisdom. So hence the in the debate we started with what does God say? And of course what Professor Polkinghorne, sorry reverend doctor said what he said was that well you know over millions of years, God used natural processes to make things evolve. And my starting point and I basically stuck to it. The whole thing was look, God actually says in genesis 1 31 everything he made was very good. And if evolution is true then it hasn’t stopped, it must still be happening. So you’re just part of the process. That’s why sooner or later you’ll die and somebody else will replace you. If they’re a little bit more capable of coping with florida heat, they will become dominant, your lot will die out and natural selection and mutation is still occurring and it’s full of death and struggle. All right. So the point that I was making to the reverend, Doctor surgeon Professor Polkinghorne was that if God made the world good, none of us, when we read the newspaper today thinks that the world is actually good. What we do is look at murder slaying and we say something’s wrong with planet Earth, right? And so starting with that theme, it’s a good thing to remind people that G. 00. D. Is God plus zero. So good is God plus nothing else. Right? And so when Romans, Chapter one says God stamped his nature on the creation, God is good in him is no evil, right? He is righteous only. So a good creation reflects his nature and in him is life not death. In fact his messages, choose me, choose life, reject me except death. And so basically that was the theme that we followed over and over again, I just said it a gazillion ways and in ways that an Aussie can say it and get away with in England because they don’t understand my accent. But that’s what we did paul. And you enjoyed the debate and it was a marvelous victory. There’s no doubt about it. If you watched the debate, there’s absolutely no doubt that you just blew him out of the water. It was just it’s very well worth watching from that point. It’s very entertaining almost from that point of it, but it’s very, very informative. But as a sort of general point, what do you make of people like Polkinghorne? Because he’s just a sort of highly qualified version of many people who will come across who say, well look, God could have used evolution if he’d wanted to. Um you know, God can do anything. I don’t limit God to to just creating in six days, God could have used evolution. And there are so many christians who say, well we can we can look at these things, we can have science, evolutionary science and we can have this, we can have the bible as well. And how does that make you feel? Well, basically, yes, I guess if you’ve been a professor at Cambridge and an adviser to the british government on science, then you are a little bit overqualified but you do just represent the ordinary person, grown big and the ordinary person out there says well the scientists have proved it. And I’ll be honest graduating in geology from Queensland University that was what my professor who was also the professor of old testament said just believe God used millions of years but I’ve become a christian. I thought well something’s wrong here because when I read genesis it doesn’t sound like millions of years, it doesn’t sound like evolution. And I’d have to say having done paleontology and sort of all that sort of stuff. You put your hand up and you ask the professor but I’ve heard the theory where’s the evidence? And by the time I finished I don’t know how many years at Queensland University. The one thing I was sure of was that evolution may have been an interesting theory but the evidence wasn’t there? I wasn’t a creationist by that stage. But I kept asking questions if God is real and he can turn water into wine, what evidence would prove genesis right? Because he says it’s true. I don’t lie. Right. And so basically what the ordinary person does is what I was doing. Why would I want to put God and evolution together answer please my professor. There was nothing else, why would he want to do that? Because he thought the scientists had proved it. Why would he believe that? Because he actually didn’t believe the theology he was teaching, he put the scientists there and the theology there eric and it’s hard to come to admit that but that’s what I was doing And until I got to say well hang on, jesus is the way the truth and the life and he saved me. Right. He died for me. The Professor didn’t on judgment day. I will not have to give account of the professor praise God for that. But I will have to give account to the one who died for me on a cross 2000 years ago fact. Oh my goodness because you’re taking God you’re basically saying no I’m not gonna let the Professor be my authority. I’m gonna let God be my authority. That’s right. That’s how he basically won the debate by continually getting back to that point. Professor Polkinghorne, what’s your authority in this? Right And and the Lord enable us to catch him in a wonderful trap Because he started out by saying 13 billion years ago or something and I’d had a paper of his from 20 years earlier where he started out 15 billion years ago and I said isn’t it wonderful in 15 years, Professor Polkinghorne is aged 15 years and the universe is 1.5 billion years younger. Something’s wrong. But that’s it. But it comes down to that is again, what is the authority? And that’s what we say all the time. How do we reason from a point where we are the authority or God is the authority. Oh I love it. Well guys that is the chauffeur today we’ve really enjoyed having john on If you can stick around. I’d love to do a little more talking with you on a future episode. If you’ve got questions, send them into questions at creation today dot org. Or you can join us on twitter, twitter dot com slash creation today and on facebook facebook dot com slash creation today. Well, tune in each episode just to see if we’ve answered your question. And of course, those programs are being archived online at Creation today dot org. This has been a production of God Quest ministries and we’d like to thank john for joining us for today’s program, Good on you, mate, and we’ll see you again.