Dr. William Lile and Rebekah Buell Hagan join Jim Daly and John Fuller to talk about the abortion pill reversal protocol.

Dr. Lile explains how the abortion pill works and why it’s a growing income stream for abortion providers. He also describes the abortion reversal process, and the network of prolife medical staff who are providing this option to women who have second thoughts after beginning a medical abortion.

As a single mom with an infant, Rebekah started the process of a medical abortion to terminate her 2nd pregnancy. However, she immediately changed her mind, renewed her commitment to God and frantically sought help in reversing the abortion. Rebekah found medical help from a pregnancy resource center & saved her baby – who is now an active, healthy boy.

The day I took, the first abortion pill was March 13 of 2013. And the following day, the day I was set to complete the abortion where the pregnancy was supposed to expel was March 14 and that was my son Ellie’s first birthday. And I quickly realized, Oh my Gosh, March 14 will forever be a day that I literally brought one baby into this world and took another one out. And it was that thought that made me think you have to do something different, you have to go back, you have to find a way out of this. Welcome to the focus on the family broadcast, helping families thrive. We’re returning to a program we shared in 2020 with Dr Bill Lyle and Rebecca Hagan because it’s so important right now the landmark Dobbs decision overturning roe v wade is definitely worth celebrating, but we still have much to do to protect life and to care for the people in situations where abortion seems to be their only available option or at least so they think If you’re in that position, you may be fearful and confused about what to do here. Focus on the family. We hope to be a beacon of wisdom, reason and truth for you. Let me urge you to give us a call. We have carrying Christian counselors and other resources to help you make an informed decision that will honor life and you can reach us by calling 800 the letter a and the word family or we’ll have details in the show notes. At the top of this program, you heard a small portion of Rebecca’s story and I know you will be intrigued by what she has to share. Dr lyle fills in some of the gaps describing more about the abortion pill. Let’s dive in. Then we’ll come back for an update from dr lyle on what the pro life landscape looks like in a post roe world. Rebecca Buell Hagen is a pro life advocate and speaker and the mom of four and Dr Bill Lyle is an O B G Y N. He’s a staunch advocate for pro life values. We’ll start jim as you asked Rebecca to share her rather heart wrenching story. Here’s focus on the family. Let’s start with you and your story. You grew up in a Christian family but ended up pregnant at the age of 17, describe what that situation with that circumstance was like, you’re in a Christian home at that point I was and you know, despite being Christians and despite my parents being on the worship team, we never talked about relationships or abortion. And so it was quite shocking to find out that I’m pregnant. And then thinking be, what do I do next? Is there a reason for that in your home? There actually was and I didn’t realize that it was rooted in such deep shame. But my mom had actually been forced to have three abortions as a teenager. So that for her. I mean, I can only imagine she just didn’t want to go there. Maybe emotionally couldn’t go there. But that left you with only questions, right? Yeah. And that’s tough. You chose to give life to your child and you married your boyfriend. But he was abusive and abandoned. This little family that you started at 18, correct? Right. And I think you discovered you were pregnant once again after you’ve broken up with your husband. Is that right? You’re absolutely right. This all happened in really less than a year. So I delivered that baby turned 18, got married. The relationship turned very abusive and dissolved. And right at that time, found out I was pregnant again. Can I ask you Rebecca because you know, we’re going through the kind of the clinical aspects of this. But what were you feeling and thinking? I’m sure there may be A 17, 18, 19 year old that’s listening now and she’s in that spot, connect with her. What were your emotions like at the time? I was terrified. I knew now how hard it was to have a child and to be a single mom. I was scared of letting my family down. And I thought really in a moment of panic and fear that abortion was my only way out of this. It was the only option. So you find out you’re pregnant with your second child and you’re agonizing over that decision, what happened? So basically from the moment I found out I was pregnant, which I took that pregnancy test at a grocery store bathroom alone before even walking out of that grocery store, knew I had to have an abortion. And so like so many young girls do. I turn to the internet on my phone and typed in abortion clinics near me. Also learned about medication abortion and found out how it was marketed as easy and convenient and cheaper and easier to hide less painful overall, less invasive. And so immediately sought out medication, abortion man bill, you’re the doctor, what is that medication, abortion? The medication itself is called mifepristone, also known as Ru 46 it is a very effective blocker of a hormone called progesterone. Progesterone. If you break that word down. Pro gest Arone pro gestation. This is the conductor of the orchestra of pregnancy that organizes everything and says our new full time job is supporting this pregnancy. Are you 46 blocks that signal separates the pregnancy from the mother and then allow allows for the cervix to open up and the uterus to contract and the baby is passed away and is delivered. Rebecca I want to return to your story. You were determined to get the abortion. You’re in this dark place. Thank you for sharing that and the vulnerability of that. It’s very admirable of you because there’s gonna be many women listening that may be in exactly the spot you are in. So I appreciate it. Um you took the first pill and what happened I did. So I took that first abortion pill. And I remember there sitting there in a planned parenthood clinic and I started to kind of tear up and the nurse practitioner that had given me the first abortion pill said, you know, Rebecca just because you’re sad, doesn’t mean you’re making the wrong decision. And right before I took it, she said, but once you do this, there’s no going back. And I just said okay. And so I took that first pill and I walked out of the clinic with the second set of medication And I was told to take it once comfortable 24 hours later the following day. And by the time I got to my car which maybe only took you know 90 seconds or so it was like everything hit me. And the best way I can describe a person that is making the decision to have an abortion. And what goes through her mind is similar to how people who are about to jump off a bridge and commit suicide think and it’s you’re walking down this path and it seems well it seems illuminated and all of a sudden you make this turn and you make that choice and it’s like all of that light goes out and you realize that it was actually satan and he says Gotcha and that’s how I felt when I got to my car and was looking at that second set of medication, It was like satan said, Gotcha and now, you know pain and now you know grief and how you know what it’s like to really regret having just had an abortion and taking the life of your child. That’s um the emptiness of that Absolutely feeling like, what have I done, right? And and people abortion providers especially make it seem like no woman ever goes into this under informed, very few women ever regret their decision or change their mind. And it’s just simply not the truth. It’s propaganda to make the machine work for them. How did God reach your heart? I mean, you beautifully described the sense that you were going down the road to darkness, taking the life of your child. How did God grab you while still sitting in my car outside of this abortion clinic. I knew I couldn’t go back in there and I just prayed to God. And I said God, if there’s a way out of this, please help me find it and if not please help me to forgive myself. And it dawned on me and I really think it was no coincidence that it was in this moment that I began to really think about this. But the day I took, the first abortion pill was March 13th of 2013. And the following day, the day I was set to complete the abortion where the pregnancy was supposed to expel was March 14th and that was my son Ellie’s first birthday and I quickly realized, oh my gosh, March 14th will forever be a day that I literally brought one baby into this world and took another one out. And it was that thought that made me think you have to do something different, you have to go back, you have to find a way out of this and what what did you do to find your way out practically after praying, which I highly recommend before turning to google. Right, I did turn to the internet and I started typing in things like I took the first abortion pill and I changed my mind and after a while and seeing women just like me post similar questions. I found the website abortion pill reversal dot com and I called the hotline number, That’s fantastic. It was and when I called I spoke to a nurse of a pregnancy center in SAn Diego, which was about eight hours away from me in sacramento and she was calm and responsive and asked me questions that the abortion provider never did. Like how did you get here and why did you think this was your only option? What is your home life like your spiritual life like and then why have you changed your mind? And then she started talking to me about abortion reversal. This is good. It was amazing. It was one of those moments where you look back and you know, she was led by the Holy Spirit. It was a an ordained conversation. And what I didn’t even realize was that throughout this whole process I wasn’t even told what the abortion pill actually did to my body. I wasn’t actually told that 24 hours later I was going home to take a medication that women are given when they’re in active labor. I was so frustrated that I was so misled and under informed that now she became the person I could trust. This is your go to person, which is beautiful. That’s how it should work. Right? Bill, what is that reversal? Medically what’s going on there to better inform women? Well, the are you 46 blocks. The hormone progesterone. We actually reverse that by supplementing with more progesterone. Progesterone that we can use is bio identical to the progesterone made by the by the woman’s body. It is made from Yams and it is made from soybeans. It’s about as natural as can be and is identical. We raise the level of progesterone and overwhelm the body. So the the woman’s body will at first say, hey, we’re pregnant and they’re given the ru 46 then there’s the signal is lost and the body says, well I guess we’re not pregnant. Well then we give more progesterone and the body response is no, it’s okay we are pregnant. And so all the support for the pregnancy is then re established and to Rebecca’s point. What is that window of time Sooner is better. We have been very effective within the 1st 72 hours. In fact, our success rate of reversing an abortion pill is about 70% if we can initiate reversal therapy within the 1st 72 hours. And this is it can be a pregnancy up to 10 weeks, which is very different From the morning after pill, which is 72 hours. This is 70 days from the first day of the last menstrual period. Yeah, that is so good. John let people know how they can get ahold of us at the website. If as you’re listening, you’re thinking, I really want that website uh stop by ours and we’ll link over to all the details and it’s focused on the family dot com slash broadcast. Our number is 800 the letter A. And the word family Rebecca folks are thinking, okay, where is she at today? What happened? You describe your family? Sure. So thankfully. I did take the advice of that nurse. We found a fish stayed on the progesterone reversal regimen. That dr lyle just talked about and maintained a healthy pregnancy a full 40 weeks and delivered another little boy. And his name is Zachariah, which means the Lord remembers because clearly as I look back on this story, um in our experience, I see God’s hand over it all. And he, despite what the abortion clinic told me that he would have severe abnormalities or that I would probably miscarry. He’s perfectly healthy. He’s starting football this year? I married a football coach and my husband’s so excited to throw him in there on the field. Fantastic. And now you have no regrets. Absolutely not. I’m so thankful for abortion pill reversal and for the physicians and the nurses that went before me and made it possible for our story to have ended this way. I want to pick up on one thing. Rebecca said when patients who have taken the Ru 46 contact their abortion clinic there too often told that there’s nothing that can be done and if something is attempted, the baby will have lots of birth defects. There is no evidence of that is a lie. It is a fear tactic. Even the FDA and ACOG have announced because it doesn’t work all the time. 2% of the time, they’re policy does not work on taking the life of the baby. There is no evidence that this causes birth defects or cause a tear it to genic effect. So the reversal medication is safe in pregnancy, even though the abortion pill will take the life of the baby when we reverse it, there’s no evidence that it causes birth defects in the baby. Again, healthy moms, healthy babies bill. Um, your passion in this space is wonderful. But let’s take a moment and deconstruct the arguments of the other side when they talk about it being safe and it being simple and no regrets, everything that Rebecca just shared. What do you see in your practice from women perhaps who have had an abortion in their background? What is the truth of what women experience? This is a medical induction of a miscarriage where the support for the pregnancy is taken away and then contractions are forced onto the woman’s body. When I’m inducing somebody at term, she’s 40 weeks has an £8 baby inside the medicine that I use the Mississippi coastal. I use 25 micrograms when somebody is going through the abortion pill process. It’s not 25 micrograms. It’s between 408 100 micrograms of the same medication to cause the contractions though the pain from the contractions is intense. The bleeding is there, the clotting and usually just like you had said, they are home, they are alone, they might be in their dorm, they might be in their bathroom. It’s a miserable experience. Which is why a lot of this medication is given out at the end of the week. The clinics are closed on the weekend. There’s nobody to call and by the time monday rolls around. Everything has already been done. Yeah. Can there be further complications in that moment. I’m thinking of a couple of women’s testimonies that I’ve heard where you can have things go wrong in that private moment after you’ve taken the additional medication. Sure you can be excessive bleeding hemorrhaging complications in addition to the pain that is there. And when they are experiencing that there’s nobody to turn to. Um there was all psychological article that was part of the Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology and they looked at women who had had either a first trimester miscarriage or a first trimester topic pregnancy. One month after that experience, 28% of them had classic defined PTSD from that experience. Nine months later, 18% of those women still had classic PTSD symptoms from that miscarriage. These were events where they did not choose to have this, but they still had the psychological impact of the loss of that pregnancy with this. This is a women’s health issue physically. Yes, but also mentally, yes, because if somebody is having these sort of symptoms nine months later, then with a miscarriage or with an ectopic pregnancy, surely when they have made the decision to cause this loss of life, they’re gonna be having similar symptoms. I mean, that is so profound and uh, you know, the goal here is to value life in this culture, unfortunately, and globally because of the work of planned parenthood and other abortion industry uh clinics. I mean, they they are convincing women that this is the way to go. And it’s um, it’s so unfortunate because what you see on the other side is a lot of misery forgiveness is the goal. And you know, we need to recognize that and be bold enough to talk about that, God doesn’t condemn. Women are in terrible positions, often being influenced by their husband or boyfriend to get the abortion, that’s a common pattern. And so we’re all guilty as a culture that we’re not doing enough to wake the culture up and say this is about protecting babies, these are human beings and man, God bless you for your efforts, as I’ve said before, Rebecca, God bless you for that decision you’ve made, Can I give you that opportunity to speak to that woman who’s contemplating abortion right now? What would you say to her? I know exactly how it feels to be in your position. I know what it feels like to think. I truly believe that there is nowhere to turn that you have no one. Um and I know now, especially now that I work in the pregnancy center ministry that I was so wrong and that there are so many people out there who love and care about you in this situation, who love and care about your baby. Um I also have seen even with my own mom the great pain and grief and regret that comes with a decision like that and I know that you aren’t being told that as a patient that’s considering abortion and so really um there are so many resources for you and even I’m willing to walk alongside you physicians like dr lyle right here are willing to walk alongside you and you do have other options other than abortion. And hopefully our contribution can be to get the word out and to make more people aware of those resources that are available to them. Thank you both for being with us today. Yeah, thank you. That’s Rebecca Buell Hagen and Dr Bill Lyle today on focus on the family and we trust you’ve heard their heart, our heart and our desire to help women and men who might be facing an unexpected or unplanned pregnancy. Well, john as you heard Rebecca’s story, those are powerful stories and she’s not alone. There’s so many stories like hers, uh Children are a gift from God and we’ve got to change this idea in the culture that they’re disposable and it’s one of the things I know our guest fights each and every day and here focus on the family. We do the same through option ultrasound and trying to save as many babies as we can together. And just because roe v wade was overturned, it doesn’t mean the battle is over. It really has put the battle into all 50 states and magnified the battle in some ways there’s just no federal constitutional right to an abortion and uh you know, we’ve got to be able to respond accordingly since that momentous decision came down from the Supreme Court in june of this year. We’ve seen widespread panic from some in the culture, you know that this is the end of it. And there’s so much disinformation in the culture that I’m glad we have dr lyle here to help clear up some of these misconceptions dr lyle. It’s great to have you with us. Thank you for joining. Well, thank you very much. It’s a privilege to be back. You did such a magnificent job in that broadcast just bringing the uh medical uh expertise and the observation of being a doctor, a scientist into that uh in describing the abortion pill and its impact and the reversal. And now that the Supreme Court recognized that abortion is not a constitutional right. It’s up to the states to decide. Like I just said, some states have banned the procedure completely like texas Louisiana Idaho and several others. But plan C the self managed at home abortion pill is on the rise. That’s I think one of the more used abortion methods right now. In fact, people order that online because in some states that’s completely legal and they don’t have to see a doctor. Am I describing that correctly? You are. And one of the things we need to define and educate is the difference between the morning after pill, which is the and the abortion pill. The morning after pill is indicated for the morning after a woman has had intercourse. The abortion pill is very, very different because it should really be called the 70 morning after pills because it is indicated to kill a baby in the womb up to 10 weeks gestation, 70 days. It’s very different, 98% of the time, it will kill a baby in the womb. And this is a baby with a heartbeat that has arms and legs That are moving, that you could see on ultrasound. And that is the level of evil when we can now have that sent mail order from a virtual visit where they never even met the physician. They never even had an exam and they never had an ultrasound. And that is where we are prior to the pandemic. 39% of all the abortions were performed with the abortion pill. Now that number is 54% nationwide. So bill with a majority now of abortions coming through this pill in effect that takes the life of the baby. What does that future look like? How do pro life people debate and fight on that battlefront where you don’t have a visit with the doctor. You can order it through the mail. I mean, it becomes very anonymous. We need to focus on patients rights because when I have a pregnant patient in my office, I don’t just have one patient. I have two patients. I’m taking care of the mom and I’m taking care of the baby. If I have twins. Well then I’m taking care of three patients. Triplets. It’s four and I’ve had quadruplets. So I’m taking care of five different patients and we treat the babies in the womb as patients. And that is something we need to really teach, we not only can diagnose babies in the womb but we can actually treat and cure them even surgically. At my hospital. We have done blood transfusions to the babies in the womb. As early as 18 weeks gestation. There have been centers around the country that are now doing spina bifida corrective surgery at 22 weeks. Open heart surgery at the Mayo Clinic at 27 weeks vascular laser surgery at 20 weeks. We are not just diagnosing. We are surgically curing babies on the inside. In fact, over at the Mayo clinic a little over a year ago, 27 week old baby in the womb had a terra toma in the heart and that was affecting the baby’s blood flow. They actually gave mom an epidural, they made an incision in the mom’s belly, made an incision in the womb and then they delivered the right arm and the left arm of the baby. Why? Because they wanted to get access to the chest of the baby to remove this tumor. When they did that before they started that surgery on the baby’s heart, they actually started an I. V. On the baby. And the baby got an STD. The baby was given north huron so that it wouldn’t move. The baby was given micro doses of fentaNYL to prevent pain. Just like we would for a baby in one of our surgical suites. Then once the surgery was done, they then removed the ivy, they closed the uterus, They closed the mother’s skin and 10 weeks later they delivered that baby by C section. That baby is now over a year old and is doing beautifully Patient is a person. No matter how small. We spent $2.4 billion $5 billion children’s hospital of Philadelphia just celebrated their 2000 fetal procedure. And there are lots of center that are doing these these surgeries. So a patient is a person, no matter how small mom is a patient of mine and baby is a patient of mine. Well and you’ve led the way in so many ways. One of those is the pill reversal website, the hotline which are great resources and your medical expertise. Again backing that. In fact on the website, uh john there’s a chat box for immediate assistance and there’s 24 7 help. So a woman can always get access to that and we’ll have that information. I think on the episode page for those listening bill, who can’t go to that episode page right now, how can they get help if they’re hearing this and a woman saying I need to talk to somebody. How would they do that? Sure. Well if they’ve already taken the first pill of the abortion pill cocktail, they can contact our website, which is abortion pill reversal dot com that will put them in touch with a nurse at our hotline who can connect them with an O. B. G. Y. N. In their area to assist them. And abortion is not health care. And we are here to assist women to have a healthy mom and a healthy baby. Because there are side effects to abortion. There are side effects to the abortion pill. There are side effects to the surgical abortion. In fact, if a woman has a surgical abortion, she has increased her risk of having a preterm delivery with a subsequent pregnancy by 35%. If she’s had two surgical abortions, she has increased that risk of delivering a few future baby by 90%. So there are risks. And we want healthy moms and we want healthy babies as O. B. G. Y. N. That’s so true. You know, a common question in light of the Dobbs decision bill is if the Supreme Court’s ruling impacts women who experience, I guess what I how I would call it is just natural uh you know, natural things that occur in a pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancy, etcetera, miscarriage. Is that coming from nature, not from a decision to terminate the baby’s life. Make that distinction for us. And the fact that most states still, if not all states will cover those kind of medical emergencies. Sure, well, let’s talk miscarriage first, my wife and I have two beautiful daughters. We suffered through four different miscarriages, nothing that we do wrong, nothing that we could have done to prevent a miscarriage is a loss of a baby on the inside of the womb. But sometimes when a woman loses the heartbeat of that baby on the inside where they need to have that baby and the placenta and the fluid delivered. Whether that is with medicine or whether it was expectant management or whether it’s with surgery. If a woman has an incomplete miscarriage and is scheduled for a D. N. C. By her physician in no way is at an abortion, abortion is done when there is a heart beating on that baby on the inside. There’s also a lot of fake news out there that these laws that are protecting the lives of babies in the womb are gonna prevent women from getting access to health care when they have an ectopic pregnancy. The number one cause of pregnancy related death in the first trimester of pregnancy. Here in the United States is still a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. And an ectopic pregnancy is when yes there’s a positive pregnancy test. Yes there is a pregnancy but it is not in the lining of the uterus where it should be. But it is landed outside the lining of the uterus. Most common place is in the fallopian tube. And there is no way that we can transfer that pregnancy in the tube and place it inside the lining of the uterus. Even if that pregnancy in the tube has a heartbeat. And we need to surgically do a procedure to save the life of that mom. That is only because we are trying to save the life of both. But we can’t save the life of the baby. So we must save the life of the mom. And when we do that, that is not an elective abortion. Mom did not choose that. That’s also one of the dangers of the abortion pill. When the abortion pill is prescribed because of a virtual visit, there’s a positive pregnancy test and the mom is just guessing how far along she is, but she does not know number one how far along she is in the pregnancy, but she also does not know where that pregnancy is. And 1% of the time that pregnancy will be in the tube instead of within the uterus. And if she takes the abortion pill, she’s told you’re gonna have bleeding cramping and pain. Well, guess what? The symptoms of a rupturing ectopic pregnancy are the exact same symptoms, bleeding cramping and pain. We have already had cases reported where girls have had a virtual visit. The abortion pill cocktail has been mailed to them. They have taken the abortion pill and then they have had bleeding cramping and pain. And then they have been found dead because they had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy because they were denied an ultrasound to see number one how far along they were. And number two where that pregnancy is that is not health care, abortion, risk the lives and health of mother. But abortion primarily takes the life of a healthy baby of healthy baby, creating the image of God, not when they’re born but at that moment of conception. So we’d be happy to debate somebody who denies what the truth is. Sounds like an open invitation dr. Bill Wild, thank you so much for being with us, appreciate your time. You’re welcome my brother and God bless you all. Thank you And let me encourage you our listeners to remain firm in our stance for life. As I said, there’s still so much to be done to protect life and care for those in situations where abortion seems to be the only available option and you know, john for us here focus we’ve done a good job with option ultrasound. Almost 500,000 babies being saved. That’s the procurement and installation of ultrasound machines, trainings, nurse trainings, doctor license coverage of the clinics. Uh, it’s been a great effort for the last 16, 17 years. But there’s so much more that we need to do. And I’m hoping state by state to be able to empower the pregnancy resource clinics even further to make them the center of community activity. Let’s help these women like job training, job placement from the christian business community maybe getting hospitals and doctors to provide reduced or free medical services for them. And then all the additional help. These weary single parent moms in many cases are facing and really be the body of christ to them and to help them. So that is the future as we look ahead. And I hope you can be a part of that with us and focus on the family is certainly here to help. We have so many different resources beyond what we’ve covered here today. And so please stop by our website, get all the details, different ways that you can get engaged, either supporting, focus on the family or volunteering at a pregnancy center, maybe opening your home gym. We’ve had colleagues who have opened their home for months at a time to an unwed mom and just been there for her. There’s so much all of us can do at some level. That’s so true. And uh it’s important to act that way. You know, 80% of poster board of women say that if they would have had one person walk with them in that journey, they would have chosen life. I mean that’s an incredible statistic. So we’re trying to be that to these women that are struggling and don’t have anybody to walk with them. Let’s walk with them together as the Christian community So that they’ll make a choice for their child and Jim mentioned option ultrasound, which is our program that’s been ongoing for a number of years. As Jim said, almost 500,000 babies have been helped through this training and support of pregnancy centers. We’ve done the math. It’s $60 to save a baby and a mom and a dad from the tragedy of abortion. Could we ask you to prayerfully consider giving $60 today? We’ll say thanks for walking with us and helping us stand for life and you can do that by calling 800, the letter a and the word family 800 a family. Or click the link on the screen on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team. Thanks for joining us today. For focus on the family. I’m john fuller inviting you back next time as we once more help you and your family thrive in christ